Okay, so tonight's episode is entitled Jughead, and personally I can't get the Archie Comics relationship out of my head! So then I started thinking what else Jughead could refer to.
Apparently, it is also the name of an early search engine (like yahoo or google).
As well, the "Kool-Aid Man" is known as Jughead in Canada. (I grew up there, and honestly, I don't ever remember that.)
It was also the name of a band with one album in 2002, (the tracks were Halfway Home to Elvis; C'Mon; Snow in Tahiti; Promise; Bullet Train; Waiting on the Son; Yesterday I Found Myself; Be Like You; Flowers; Shame on the Butterfly; and, Paging Willie Mays).
Jughead is the nickname of a nuclear bomb!
Additionally, it was the slang term for a mule in the 19th Century.
Lastly, it was the name of a song, widely thought to be the worst Prince ever recorded.
The episode is supposed to be Desmond-centric. I think we can rule out the kool-aid connection and probably the band. This leaves the bomb, a mule, the internet search engine and the Prince song.
Any guesses?
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172 comments:
No guesses yet but I just realized we only get 1 hour tonight and got depressed.
Isn't Jughead a slang term for a Marine or some other military person? Or is that jarhead? I actually thought of the Moarine thing first, then Archie Comics. Didn't know all those other ones.
As noted by PJ, it's a search engine. As a search engine, Jughead is meant to index servers quickly so it builds its database in memory. When Jughead uses all of the available memory, it becomes unacceptably slow, limiting the size the servers it can index. Don't know if this could be pertinent......
Sounds like a Sawyer nickname to me also........
Jarhead is the slang term for a Marine...not sure if it's negative or positive...GREAT book and movie tho...and i feel the exact same about it only being one hour tonight, haha ;)
They are replaying "The Lie" at 8pm tonight. I wonder if it will be enhanced?
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It IS enhanced!
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I love Lost!
Why does the 70 hour rule have to equal the end of days for the planet? Why can't it just be the "end of the island"? It is what everyone wants. Maybe it goes away for good after 70 hours.
--DocH
January 28, 2009 6:47 PM
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It can be Doc. I proposed it as a theory, not as fact.
LOVE IT! Oh Danny boy............what's your story?
Did anyone else catch "Walt" in the Anytizers commercial in the enhanced episode? LOL.
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wasn't dan's time traveling rat named eloise...perhaps after his mother?
also, i totally thought that chick at the beginning with the gun was going to be a young rousseau...bummer...
was it a chicken commercial? I saw it last night--I thought it was Walt!!!
must be gwp at Clinique. Alpert's lookin' mighty fancy tonight.
CHARLES WIDMORE?! ON THE ISLAND!?
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that answers some questions now! wow, widmore was an other, a hostile, on the island...whoa baby!
Desmond and Penny named the baby CHARLIE!
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Pace or Widmore?
Oh crap, Miss Kim, I didn't even THINK of Charles Widmore! But it MUST be for PACE, because everyone HATES Widmore.
LOL.
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Bedtime for Bonzo. Here’s my ponderous thought for you:
The runway that the Others were building last year……could it be for the O6 to have a safe place to land?
Baby Desmond has to be Charlie for Pace, not Widmore. Des was there when Charlie died at Mikhail's hand... Wid is Penny's dad, both of whom they hate. Why name a baby after a persona-non-grata? Charlie saved Des's bacon more than once. Charles Widmore has done nothing more than ruin Pen/Des life.
Baby Hume is also in a rare line of characters (now). It's all about the kids now... Ji Yeon, Aaron, Charlie.
--DocH
Plus, it was Penny's fleeting connection with Charlie that led her to Desmond.
I LOVE the idea of the runway being for the O6. I don't care what the naysayers and doubting Thomases say, D&C knew EXACTLY how this was going to play out from day one. And I still think Nikki and Paulo will have some greater purpose! LOL.
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I'm pretty confident the right answer Pace/Widmore question is Pace. I posed the question as I know how much PJ loves Charlie. (Pace that is :))
I'm not sure if I could name my baby after Charlie knowing that my same-named father had caused so many problems for me........Penny's a swell gal.
I hear you! But I suppose it the child's legal name is Charlie... of course, given that they've been in hiding, he might not HAVE a legal name!
I agree with you, Doc H. It is about the kids - because there has to be a reason Penny had a baby other than to call him Charlie!
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Hammer said: The runway that the Others were building last year……could it be for the O6 to have a safe place to land?
BRILLIANT!
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There is a new dead horse on the big island - Theresa in the bed!
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Did anyone else notice that Lock told Alpert "Jacob sent me" instead of you sent me???
Did anyone else notice that Lock told Alpert "Jacob sent me" instead of you sent me???
G'mornin' all. Restless night of sleep for me w/ the wind howling and blowing....many thoughts of LOST while I waited for the wind to blow the house down. :) I like that we're getting some "answers" to many questions and of course some new questions as well. I'm not sure if things are as they are being made to appear in many circumstances. Faraday's mum being Ms. Hawkings is being spoon fed to us. No big AHAS for that. Is it misinformation or an attempt to pacify the multitudes looking for rhyme and reason to what the heck's going on? The whole Chang baby in the crib thing has me puzzled as well. I kinda want to think that it is Miles....but I'm really not convinved. The baby looked pretty generic. It really could have been any baby--and frankly, there may be more than one baby. (The crying baby from the video, "get him out of here" may be different from the baby in the crib.) Possibly the babies were being cared for by candle/chang and his SO, but they have different biological parents. We haven't ever heard about Penny's mother.....any chance one of those babies could have been Penny? Now that we know Charles Widmore was on the Island, possibly her mum was too. (If he was around that long.)
Circus Mom said...
Did anyone else notice that Lock told Alpert "Jacob sent me" instead of you sent me???
January 29, 2009 7:14 AM
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Yea, I think it's because it's because Jacob DID send him. Remember, his visit with Claire and Christian? He was told he had to move the island, which Ben actually did, but thru Locke's direction. Alpert only said that he wouldn't remember Locke so use the compass. Jacob started all of this time skipping stuff.
For all we know, Juliet is a triple agent, not a true Other, not a true LOSTie, but a Widmore plant!
Speaking of people not looking right, did you see Charlotte just before she hit the ground? I have to go back and look at it again, but her face looked morphed somehow.
The big island is already driving me batty with the obsession over the woman in the bed. Even if she DOES have a connection to someone else in the story, we have no way of knowing and all the speculation is bugging me. At least with the speculation over time travel, we had the characters WORDS to go by! LOL.
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I hear ya PJ. I hate being 'that guy' but I am finding myself not finishing some of the comments because of the topic.
ROFLOL, DocH.
Hey Hammer, where is your "numbers thread" located?
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I'm game Doc. That would be frickin' awesome.
I had to post a comment to get it on the 'recently commented' board. It's there now.
that would be hilarious! i am getting sick of the whole woman in the bed thing too, my goodness, pay attention! her name is not eloise, she's not charlotte or penny or anyone else we've seen. i'm sure there's a point to her story, but i think most importantly was the fact that we found out widmore had been funding dan's research...i agree pj, not everyone has to be connected!!!
lovedLovedLOVED last nights episode...thought the angry little other-girl was AWESOME, thought Desmond barging into Widmore's office and telling it like it is was AWESOME (you can tell the 'struggle is taking a toll on Widmore, because he wasn't even angry or cocky, he was like 'just go back into hiding so my daughter is safe') and thought Locke finding out the young angry other was a young Widmore was AWESOME...and Faraday is an enigma, trapped in a mystery, wrapped in a riddle...in my opinion, a GREAT episode!!! ;)
ESB, my thought is Widmore didn't put up a big fight because he knows Des has to help the island folks. I don't think he ever hated Des, he belittled him to get him enter the race. Libby was a plant to get him the boat, Ms. Hawking met him during the concious travel, Dan's work is funded by Widmore, etc., etc., etc.
ps-i also agree with some of you that the big island is a little out of control this season..at least so far...and my current job just doesn't let me keep up with it anymore...so i'm just going to read your posts here and chime in once in a while...i'm definitely camping on the littel island for the time being...
...and oh yeah, LOST RULES! ;)
Hammer, i think your logic is pretty sound, but Widmore is taking a big chance putting all his hopes on reverse psychology. and i hate thinking that Libby was a plant, even tho it's probably true...;)
I agree with all of you. The episode was awesome ESB. Much better than the first two. I knew there was something strange last week about the one army guy with an accent wearing a U.S. military uniform. AKA, Charles Widmore.
Not really sure if Alpert can time travel after last night's explanation of how he ended up at Locke's birth. WHO IS HE? OR WHAT?
I have yet to check in at the big island, but I am game for DocH's proposal. That would be hilarious.
I thought it was great when young Widmore asked Richard "Who knows this island better than me?" and then they flashed to Locke.
After reading your comment Hammer about Widmore, I confused myself.
Widmore wanted him in the race to get him on the island, out of Penny's life?
Mrs. Hawking would not sell him the wedding ring and told him of his destiny to be great on the island, or something to that effect.
Ben is against Charles Widmore but after last week's episode, Mrs. Hawking appears to be helping Ben out.
Why would both sides want Desmond on the island?
I'm just guessing L4E, but I think that Widmore NOW knows that there is a BIG problem and knows that Des is the 'only one' that can help. I don't think the fight for the island is over, but I think both sides are aware of the problem. Dan is funded by Widmore, IF Hawking is Dan's mom, and Widmore knows where she is and what she's doing, then he knows that Des's destiny is to help.
Apply all the course correcting going on...and one COULD assume that Widmore set up Des to go to the island in the first place to make sure things that were supposed to happen do.
haha, yeah...when young Widmore says to Richard Alpert "do you think he could actually track me??" my wife and i both started laughing...and i agree that last night was better than either episode last week...from the preview following the show, next week looks pretty sweet too...;)
Gotcha Hammer. With the info we have, I assume that Mrs. Hawking and Daniel's mother are the same. IF so, Widmore must not know that she is helping Ben or he would not have given Des that info so easily. Otherwise he is putting Penny's life in jeopardy. Unless finding the island is more important than his daughter.
Well, he did say, after you give your message, go hide again, protect Pen, etc.
For those not partaking in the big island banter, I posted these three screencap links:
Photo Desmond found at Oxford:
http://tinyurl.com/danielphoto
Theresa in bed:
http://tinyurl.com/theresabed
Painting of Polar Bear with Namaste in Widmore's office:
http://tinyurl.com/widmorepainting
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We’ve seen Widmore's before….’Flashes Before Your Eyes’….lostpedia under ‘paintings’.
I thought it had been discussed before Hammer, but everyone was talking about it on the big island, so I found the screen cap! LOL
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Oh, not complaining, just pointing it out that we saw it before. :)
There's a new podcast out. Nothing major, but the boys will like looking at Juliet. :) She talks about speaking Latin. BTW, she is NOTHING like her character, including manorisms. Great acting now that I've seen the real her.
They only answer one fan question and I consider it a very minor spoiler.
Holy Push-Up Bra, Batman!
ROFLOL.
You are very right about Elizabeth Mitchell being NOTHING like Juliet!
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Okay, if we plan it for an April Fools joke, then I am in. I was hesitant to start anything that could be construed as malicious, but a harmless joke would be fine. I am not sure I want to aim it at anyone though.
April Fool's Day *IS* a Wednesday!
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DocH, let's do it! I think that would be just awesome.
oh an april fools joke sounds like so much fun, let's do it!!
something i have been pondering and didn't to propose on the big island because i didn't to hear about how everyone is all related (again) or about what happened in what year and who travelled in time where (again)...but what do you think happened to widmore and mrs. hawking that they had to leave the island? do you think it was by choice, or they were forced to leave?
I have a gut feeling that Widmore turned the old wheel and can't find his way back. Maybe Hawking was along for the ride?
I would also like to establish that this should NOT be a place where we come to gossip about Others. *bg*
I have been around other webgroups where that kind of thing happened and it only turns out badly. So let's please keep whatever we say here limited to something we would actually say to the Other online or in person.
For example, on the big island, you have all called Bobola out for his flaming posts. I know that you are NOT doing so now, simply to avoid fanning said flames. So I don't think complaints about Bobola are a problem, because you WOULD say the same things directly to him (except that he would only get worse as a result).
But let's avoid being "Mean Girls" in general, okay?
(This is not targeted at anyone in particular, just a general request to all for the future.)
TIA,
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we know that ben became the leader of the others in 1992...we don't know who their leader was prior to ben, correct?
Good point. Mine is gone here. I let it be known where I stand on the big island.
WAYork Family said: what do you think happened to widmore and mrs. hawking that they had to leave the island? do you think it was by choice, or they were forced to leave?
If Ellie is indeed Mrs. Hawking, then that is a big question. Richard CLEARLY has a way on and off the island. Perhaps Widmore (with or without Ellie) was the first to turn the FDW and until that happened, they didn't KNOW you couldn't come back. Maybe Widmore was too curious and turned it to see what would happen?
Someone once had a theory that they used polar bears to turn the FDW. Maybe after Widmore left, and they realized the result of turning the FDW, they trained polar bears to do it?
Interesting...
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I think it was Doc @ the polar bears and FDW. It made sense to me because of the skeleton Charlotte found in Tunisia, which made it seem like that is where you end up if you turn it.
I'm in. Burn After Reading...:)
PJ, you have spoiled us. The little island feels like the adult conversation after the kids have gone to bed.
I'm in with telling the kids there is a easter bunny. Should be fun to create a myth.
I think Widmore was ice to Desmond because because he knows Desmond can hide and keep Penny safe from Ben and Widmore can't. Penny is more inportant to him. He dosn't want Des to go back to the island.
Also, when Mrs. Hawkins wouldn't sell Des the ring, she knew it was concience traveling Des because she talked about the island and expected him to know what that meant.
How about for the April fools joke we make Alpert and Jacob the same. My coment about Locke saying Jacob sent me sets it up and even though I don't beleive it to be true we could make good arguments with Alpert not aging and all.
I made that same comment on the big island and if no one had responded to it yet then it should work.
Circus Mom said: Also, when Mrs. Hawkins wouldn't sell Des the ring, she knew it was concience traveling Des because she talked about the island and expected him to know what that meant.
I may be mistaken, but weren't the encounters with Mrs. Hawking in Desmond's FLASHBACK, not in his consciousness-traveling?
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do we have any evidence that Ms. Hawking was ever on the island? or are we just assuming she was because she's looking for it? here's a thought...angry little other-girl is actually young Ms. Hawking...? that would explain why she looked familiar to Daniel and why Widmore knows her...i dunno, does it make any sense?
i also am very thankful to PJ for this little island...nice place it is...;)
sorry...is Ellie the name of the little angry other-girl? if so, i totally missed it and apologize for posting something already put forth...oops...
No worries, ESB. Those of us who are leading dual lives (here and the big island) forget what's been discussed where!
Ellie is the angry blonde Other girl, yes. It seems that she may well grow up to be Mrs. Hawking. We learned in the pop-ups in last nights repeat of "The Lie" that her first name is Eloise. Since D&C have said that pop-ups are not necessarily cannon, we can only take this to be a POSSIBLE first name. Those pop-ups have been known to be slightly OFF.
On the big island, they are bantying about the thought that Ellie is
a) Mrs. Hawking
b) the girl in the bed (Theresa)
c) Dan's mother
d) Penny's mother
e) all of the above.
Yes, I mean it all of the above.
BTW, if we are going to pull off an April Fool's joke, those of you NOT coming to the big island probably ought to show yourselves a few times between now and 4/1 or it will look mighty suspicious that you all show up that night to participate!
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okay, gotcha...
i definitely like the idea of Ellie (like calling her the little angry other-girl better ;) being a young Ms. Hawking and it seems to make sense on all levels...very cool...not sure what i think about about her being any of the other choices...
and i'll definitely pop up on the Big Island here and there so as to not seem suspicous...;)
I really don't want Mrs. Hawking to be Dan's mother. Too spoon fed for my liking. I really appreciate the "Put down the gun, Widmore" kind of surprise soooooo much more.
I think an April Fool's Day prank is a fine idea.
Maybe the AHA! part will be that Mrs. Hawking is angry island ellie, Dan's mother, AND Penny's mother. I suppose that's kind of AHAish. As far as Theresa (girl in bed) being Mrs. Hawking also....well, that would mean that she is able to have two seperate physical beings sharing one consciousness. I'm not sure how that would work..........
another site i frequent has april 1 listed as a new episode 5.12 i won't give away the title, but looks like it will be a new one...bring on the prank ideas!
btw, had to change the name since we moved...
I considered that they might have a lull in new episodes, but didn't they sort of promise 16 episodes with no stops LAST year and then the strike happened? I seem to remember D&C saying it would be January to May with all new episodes. I hope there isn't an actors' strike!
I agree with you, Miss Kim about Mrs. Hawking as Daniel's mother IS being spoon fed to us. Maybe there will be a GOTCHA moment soon.
WA to TX? Quite a culture shock. Of course, I didn't realize that the WA was for the state. Somehow I thought it was WAY and York and you just combined them. Not sure why, that is just what I thought! LOL.
But you're LINS on the big island, right?
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yeah, it's LINS on there. i post on friend's blogs and they were starting to complain about the WA notation...had to give in to the masses, jk :) culture shock indeed though, but hey, LOST is on earlier now for me in CT than PST!
Okay little islanders... there is a theory developing on the big island that I need to share with those who don't go there...
People are bouncing around why or how Widmore left the island. Then Miraks posted this: I think Widmore was banned by Jacob/ his people. We saw young Widmore break the neck of his fellow other when he felt like the guy was revealing to much information. He was also bitting at the bit to kill our guys when they rolled into camp (same with Ellie by the way). I think that by the time our group “flashed away” again, Alpert was convinced that Locke was the revealed new leader that they were instructed to eventually find, but Widmore (and maybe a group with him) did not believe that an “outsider” was meant to be in charge of “his” island. Thus setting up two rival groups, one in the Widmore camp, the other in the Alpert/ Ben/ Locke camp. Widmore’s group ended up off island. The question is which group does Jacob belong to? Was Christian Shepherd also part of this (maybe Widmore’s group)?
Which got me thinking, so I posted this: Oooh. Yeah. He is/was about the right age!
MAYBE… just MAYBE… if you were on the island under some specific circumstance, you can return to the island after you die, to continue “living” in eternity!? Maybe THAT is why 815 had to crash? To return Christian to the island? Maybe THAT is why the O6 have to take Locke back? Maybe THAT is why Alpert appears never to age?
So... comments, questions, thoughts, doubts?
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so i was thinking about it last night and got SUPER excited at the idea that little angry other-girl Ellie (LAOGE, haha;) may be a young Ms. Hawking...i always thought that character was super cool and freaky and hoped we'd get more story on her and now it looks like it might be happening...i've also loved the actress that plays her as an older woman ever since i saw The Others...
I LOVE this show and CAN'T wait to see how it all plays out...;)
PJ, I've been supporting the theory that many of the passengers were planted on the plane for the purposes of getting them to the island. So I think it's a great thought that Christian's body needed to get back to island, since if we assume Locke died off the island that his body needs to get to the island too.
My most recent post on TBI:
So I ran the theory of eternal “living” past my dh and he asked why they have to take Locke back. Maybe Locke HAD to die to TRULY become the leader. Maybe Alpert and Christian and Locke, the unseen Jacob and possibly others are needed as some kind of quorum to accomplish the final goal (maybe as it relates to the Valenzetti equation).
Maybe that is why Ben needed to be healed by Jack, because to become a leader, he has to die off island (not from a tumor ON island)?
Okay, I have to turn my brain OFF for a few minutes!
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PJ,
i like that theory, but i think something more must have happened to make Widmore consider the island his...as hard as it is to believe, considering what a punk he is as a young man, i tend to think that at some point in time (haha) he must have been in a place of power to think the island belongs to him...having a split from Captain Eyeliner and getting booted off the island doesn't seem to be enough, in my opinion, to have himn going around saying the island is his...i would think if anything his side wins the dispute and takes over, (remember when Ben first meets Alpert, Alpert looks all dirty and disheveled, like he's a rebel fighter/fugitive-type) but then, again the question is, just how does he end up off the island?
ESB, I agree that something big happened regarding Widmore's departure from the island. I can't even begin to speculate on it... but I am still working on the idea that Alpert, Christian and possibly Locke died off island and will leave eternally on the island.
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haha, i honestly cannot imagine that they will be able to answer or explain even half of the things i want answered or explained before they wrap up the show...it seems impossible to me...maybe they will make a movie after the series is done just to tie up all the loose ends...;)
I figure the season 6 DVD will have forty hours of bonus features ALL of which is D&C answering questions from fans! LOL
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haha, i hope you're right PJ, because that would be AWESOME! ;)
Good point, DocH.
And Sun, well her dad is one of the mighty, wealthy, "evils" like Widmore.
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don't know if it matters or has been said before but Sun is Korean and 'Jughead' was taking place around the same time as the Korean War, correct? so maybe Sun's dad is involved in some way through that connection...?
you have to remember that alpert took locke seriously when he mentioned jacob which means jacob has been around "forever" as well, that's the identity that i want to know, who the heck is "jacob"!
Jacob is an alternate-time/dimension version of:
a-Locke
b-Ben
c-Alpert
d-Aaron
e-Faraday
f-Someone we have not met or have not guessed...
hahaha, who the heck knows...i for one personally hope they are able to keep that secret until the very last episode...;)
true, alpert told locke that in order to bring them all back he was going to have to die, i wonder if christian was told he had to die to bring them all there in the first place?
DocH said...
I will add about Christian - his dead body in a coffin may have made it back to where it was supposed to be - the island. I wonder if he had a "we have to go back" moment with Claire's mom. Seems like his whole Australia trip was a farewell tour / suicide trip. HIS destiny was to bring all of OA815 to the island. Now Bentham (Locke-In-A-Box) has to go back to the island too... ala Christian.
January 30, 2009 7:03 PM
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Is there an 'Eko' in here?
Hammer said...
PJ, I've been supporting the theory that many of the passengers were planted on the plane for the purposes of getting them to the island. So I think it's a great thought that Christian's body needed to get back to island, since if we assume Locke died off the island that his body needs to get to the island too.
January 30, 2009 12:51 PM
JUST JOKING AROUND DOC!
While I'm joking...the big island has become a big echo chaimber. Last week I was saying how it seemed like people were reading and not repeating ideas. Not so much this week, eh?
I just read a whole big repeat of the convo PJ, ToeKnee and I had earlier today about the young Locke/Alpert meeting.
DocH said...
Christian was hanging out in Jacob's cabin... I wonder if we will see "Balder Ghost Locke" hanging out there too.
Like the "Little Rascals' Clubhouse".
January 30, 2009 7:35 PM
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Actually, I'm pulling for it. Someone mentioned that maybe there is a bunch of them that need to 'get together'.
Hammer said: Actually, I'm pulling for it. Someone mentioned that maybe there is a bunch of them that need to 'get together'.
That was me. *blushing* Or at least I was one of the people who said it - not necessarily the first.
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Well, I'm pulling for it PJ. Since I don't think Charlie is alive, I want one of you other theories to turn out!
Well who knows!? Charlie did die "OFF" the island! Maybe he will be one of the Little Rascals! LOL.
And once again we revisit, the line someone said about the dead not staying buried, or something like that.
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The theory would account for why Miles got to go on the Kahuna field trip. He hears the dead--the likes of Jacob and Christian-- and could report back to Widmore.
OK, kind of a weird idea but I want to see a Numbers where someone is murdered on the set of Lost and our mathmatician is working to solve it. I'm not sure if this is a dream or a nightmare.
Hi guys, I was just wondering if the little island was still here, or had vanished alo LOST. SO GLAD TO SEE YOU ALL HERE!
I LOVED reading all your intelligent, non-repetative thoughts. Thanks PJ for staying open for business!
I just had a couple of thoughts:
1. PJ, on the opening page, you were speculating about who/what was Jughead. You mentioned a bad Prince song. I was thinking of that when I realized that next week's episode is called "the Little Prince". Probably a very funny coincidence! (But who knows, this is LOST)
2. I agree with DocH that Juliette is NOT to be trusted. Here's why: We already know that she was an Other "plant" to the LOSTies when she first joined them. She APPEARED to have come clean (when caught) and to have put the Others behind her, but she has been acting weird. Does anyone know enough Latin to say for sure what was really said between her and the young Others? Also, the whole term "Others" - was first used by Rousseau when she was asked by Sayid if she had seen any other people on the island, and she said "no, but I hear them" (after 16 years - REALLY?), and then she refered to them as the "Others". Now, in light of all we have seen, I'm starting to wonder about OTHER WHAT??? What/who is Jacob?
Hope this doesn't sound too dumb, and I hope there is room in this sandbox for me too!
On vacation from the big island,
Rita
There's room Rita, now that you are 'back' you are an insider on the prank....so mums the word.
Of course Hammer! Mums the word! Sounds like fun, so long as it isn't malicious.
Rita
Welcome back, Rita!
Juliet is definitely an enigma. We'll see where she REALLY stands in all of this.
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I am still struggling with Locke and his role for the island.
It appears to me that he is NOT the Others leader, but he thinks he is. I see Locke as just being used by Richard to help save the island, not necessarily being their leader.
Alpert explained to us that they have specific guidelines for the way they choose their leader. Which, after last year's episode, we saw. Their leaders are chosen at a very young age and from what I gathered last year, Locke failed their tests.
Timeline
1. 1954-Richard Alpert first meets Older John Locke on the island.
2. 1956-Richard Alpert visits the newborn John Locke after the suggestion 2 years earlier on the island.
3. 1961- Richard Alpert revisits 5 year-old John Locke and administers the test used to determine island leadership. Locke fails miserably and Alpert leaves angrily.
I believe, as few other people do, that Ellie is Daniel's mother and also Mrs. Hawking. I also think Jacob and Richard may be the same, but Richard was "forced" by someone to kill American soldiers on the island. He follows a chain of command.
Freaky thought just hit me. Montand lost his hand. So did Dr. Chang, who is also Dr. Marvin Candle. Perhaps they are one and the same?
I also plan on returning to the big island soon. I have been unable to read along with the comments and don't have the time to catch up with 300 plus comments by Thursday. My brain just can't take it.
Hammer, I'm a bit disappointed that your new numbers thread is not really addressing the numbers per se. I was hoping to learn something but many of the comments are of the type where you just want to ask "are you watching the same show??" Oh well, no complaints.
Rita
DocH,
Not sure if you are asking how we know it is 1954, but if you are, then it is because Richard says it in S5E3:
LOCKE: All right. All right. What year is it right now?
RICHARD: It's 1954.
LOCKE: All right. May 30, 1956--2 years from now--that's the day I'm born--Tustin, California, and if you don't believe me, I suggest you come and visit me.
: ) P
Whew! Glad I found the Little Island. It's so nice to read all of the comments. My lips are sealed on your April Fool's Day prank so no worries there.
Thank you Petra. I could not find it. (ctrl-f it). And another web suggested it was 50 years +/- a year or two.
--DocH
Welcome Trixanna!
: ) P
Okay, let me bring up Libby for a second. See I have always thought that the fact that she was holding a PILLOW over her belly when she got shots was just plain ODD. So with all this talk of possibly living eternally on the island if you were killed off island (after having been on the island for a specified time period or event), I got to thinking.
What is Libby is one of those Whisperer-Others like Alpert and possibly Christian? She isn't really "alive" so Michael didn't really kill her, (but she pretended to die to go along with the story) so she is buried, but doesn't STAY buried?
Then she visits Michael in the hospital and on the freighter - along with Christian. This could explain how she ended up at Santa Rosa with Hurley and in the coffee shop with Desmond.
Thoughts?
: ) P
I like it PJ. It's looking more and more to me like Libby was a plant to Des, Hugo and the plane. And you idea could explain it.
(Rita)Anonymous said...
Hammer, I'm a bit disappointed that your new numbers thread is not really addressing the numbers per se. I was hoping to learn something but many of the comments are of the type where you just want to ask "are you watching the same show??" Oh well, no complaints.
Rita
January 31, 2009 9:26 PM
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Hey, yes, I was hoping for it would spark more talk about how they are going to tie the numbers back into the plot. I appreciate your 'head banging' ideas as well as PJ's.
PJ, I know you commented on this topic before, so I thought I'd keep it off the big island. Since island was moved on day 100 and began skipping for the Losties presumably the same day, what do think will be the net effect for the Losties? It's three years later for the O6, do you figure the Losties just aren't aging while they skip because there is no real time lapsing for them?
Any thought about what "the Little Prince" is referencing (besides a bad Jughead Prince song :) )? One of the potential new leaders in training perhaps?
Rita
Hammer said: It's three years later for the O6, do you figure the Losties just aren't aging while they skip because there is no real time lapsing for them?
Yes, that sums it up. I think that when they do reunite with the O6, it will feel like it has been a few days from their perspective rather than three years.
The only reason I think that is that I find it hard to believe that D&C are going to be able to "back fill" three years of "real time" for the islanders. I just figure that will be the "way out" of doing so.
But as usual, I am probably way off base! LOL.
: ) P
Very interesting PJ. So are you saying that the Off Island LOSTies are aging (see Aaron, Walt, et al), but the ON Island LOSTies aren't? That could be an interesting reunion!
Rita
Rita said: Any thought about what "the Little Prince" is referencing (besides a bad Jughead Prince song :) )? One of the potential new leaders in training perhaps?
I think we are probably SUPPOSED to think it is about Aaron. However, given their propensity for literary references, my guess is that the link is to "Le Petit Prince" by Antoine de Saint-Exupéry. I read it in the original French (back when I could still speak French) so the story is a little hazy - though it DOES involve a plane crash in the desert!
However, the main theme of the book is that you become connected with, and responsible for, those you spend time with.
There are a couple of interesting quotes I found when looking up the spelling of the author's name:
"On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux."
(One cannot see well except with the heart, the essential is invisible to the eyes.)
And,
"In the face of an overpowering mystery, you don't dare disobey."
Either or both could relate to our story. Oh how I wish Wednesday were today! Did someone mention time travel? Hmmm.
: ) P
Again, interesting PJ! I too thought immediately about Le Petit Prince - and I too read it originally in French (when I could still read French). The little Prince was traveling around the universe, on a flock of birds if I recall correctly. He wanted the crashed plane pilot to draw him a sheep, and he needed to get back to his own world in order to care for his rose. He needed to die (snake bite) to make this happen. Hmmmmmm. I actually hadn't thought of Aaron, but now that you mention it.... :). I was actually thinking about Widmore - that perhaps he was the "little prince" or leader in training and left for some reason, and needs to get back "to care for his rose (people)". I like the idea of Aaron, or Walt, or even Locke, being the little prince, and I guess we can rule out Ji Yeon, at least for this purpose.
Rita
Rita, If you want your name on the posts click on Name/URL below and it will allow you to enter a name. It took me awhile to figure it out so I wouldn't be Annonymous.
Thanks Circus Mom! I had it right in the past but it wouldn't work anymore. Glad to not be annonymous anymore!
(in case this doesn't work - Rita)
PJ and Rita, THAT is why I love this blog. I never took French and never heard of that book. I was falling into the obvious Aaron trap. Well read folks have an advantage and I'm glad I have hooked up with you folks.
I think I mentioned in the past that between my adult a.d.d. and having one eye near sighted and the other far sighted(which makes me fall asleep while trying to read for long periods of time) I stopped reading books years ago.
So thanks for the info!!!
I'm glad we hooked up, too, Hammer! We're all very lucky to have found like-minded, forward-thinking, well-rounded folks (who are allowed to sit at the "grown-up table" as CM suggested! LOL).
: ) P
Yes, I am definitely lucky to have found all of you here at the "grown up table" (I like that!). You are all the BEST!
I read some of Le Petit Prince online and think more than ever that it is related to our story, in several ways. Especially when the Little Prince tells the pilot that he shouldn't come see him when the snake bites him becaue "it will look as if I'm dead, but I won't be". He says he needs to get back to his rose because "she is so weak and naive and unable to protect herself from the world at all". His world is "so very small". I can't WAIT UNTIL WEDNESDAY!!
The Little Prince is my very favorite book in the whole wide world. I made my daughter read it last month and was totally psyched to discuss the people the Little Prince met while traveling. When I saw the name of the upcoming episode I immediately thought of the snake bite which would "send anyone who wishes back to the land from whence he came"....a clever way to describe death. Anyhow--I'm sure that it'll be great--and hopefully provide us with more clues.
PS Hammer--If you ever decide to start reading again, The Little Prince is a great one to pick. It's a children's book but illustrates great points about life and human nature. Speaking of illustrating--there's even pictures! You don't need to know French as it is written in a kabillion different languages including English. Also, it is available in "Claymation" form on DVD......there's even a comic book version that came out about a year ago, but it's written in French.
I'll give it a shot, read in small bursts. What reading level? I have an 11 and a 13 year old...can I pass it off as getting it for them? :)
"It is the time you have spent with your rose that makes your rose so important. "
The Little Prince
Rose and Bernard?
My daughter had just turned 11 when I "suggested" she read it. She really liked it though I realize that much of the "profoundness" went over her head. I really wanted her to read it as a child though....and then, if she chooses, revisit it as an adult. Here's the link to a site where you can read it online.....pics and all! http://home.pacific.net.hk/~rebylee/text/prince/contents.html
tinyurl.com/hammer-slittleprince
this will make it easier.....
Coolio Miss Kim, thanks.
The theories on the big island are getting mighty wild now. LOL.
I ordered "The Little Prince" on PaperBackSwap and look forward to reading it again (this time in English!) and then letting my boys have a go at it.
If you don't already know about PaperBackSwap (PBS), it is SO cool. You enter the ISBN's of books you have by no longer need. When someone wants one of those books, you print a ready made mailing label to send it to them and then you get a credit to receive (at no cost to you) any book you want! You pay the postage to send books and you receive your requests for free. I will put a link on the homepage of this blog (if I can!).
: ) P
Thanks PJ for the info about the PBS - I checked it out and will definitely want to do this!
Thanks for the update, Doc. My ranking went way down, if I recall last week's correctly. Oh well!
Congrats on the bump up, Hammer!
: ) P
OK DocH, what are the fantasy league scores? Sounds like fun!
We haven't mentioned Fringe since LOST started back, but I finally watched last week's episode. Okay, I still like the intrigue, but the show is still over the top in gross-moments-I-can't-watch. Anyway, I got a giggle because the woman who played the mother of Walter's dead lab-assistant was "Gram" from Dawson's Creek. Pacey and Gram sharing scenes! LOL.
: ) P
Thanks Doc for the update!!!!!
Hammer, I loved the idea of the numbers theory thread but it is now giving me a migrain. Could new losty be playing a joke on us? Is this how computer nerds feel about the rest of us. Are we Lost nerds?
Thanks PJ for your response to Bobola.
Thanks DocH for the explanation. I think I want in the next round.
Kudos PJ for your response to Bobola. What an unhappy person. :(
Circus Mom, I hadn't even thought that New Losty might be playing a joke on us, but now I am inclined to think you might be right! Maybe some of us are more LOST than others! I had to LAUGH OUTLOUD at your wondering if we sound like that to real computer nerds!! Yikes, that's a sobering thought! (my name is Rita and I am a LOST nerd....)
:)
For those of you who are not traveling to the big island, I posted an analogy to help explain time travel. I thought I would post it here as well. (Someone posted that since Frogurt died in 1950, he couldn't have lived in 2005.)
Frogurt, and all the redshirts, WERE alive in early 2005, yes. But they died. It just HAPPENS that they died in a different “time zone” so to speak. They didn’t return to THEIR lives in 1950 and die, their 2005 selves went to a time before they existed.
I was working on an encyclopedia analogy to help figure out the time travel issues when [Miraks] developed (pun intended) the photoshop analogy. Since that was such a GREAT analogy, I put mine away. I will return to that analogy because it makes the dying in a different “time zone” easier to explain.
Okay, so think of the history of the island as an encyclopedia set in a font in a thick book. Everything that happened in linear fashion is listed in this book.
When the LOSTies traveled back the first time, we go in and handwrite the things they did in the margin on the page in the time they landed. Same goes for the next time they land - we write whatever happens in the margin. It doesn’t CHANGE history, but what they did must be noted.
So we get to the most recent jump where the flaming arrows fly through the sky. We’re madly writing this information in the margins of our encyclopedia. When the redshirts die, we include that. But writing in the margins does NOT CHANGE what is typewritten in the encyclopedia already. Frogurt and the redshirts existed in 2005. Then they died.
If Sawyer, Juliet et al travel to late 2004, they might encounter the redshirts. If they travel to a week AFTER the freighter exploded, they will not.
There will have to be a footnote in early 2005, which explains that the redshirts perished while time traveling.
: ) P
Perfect, PJ....perfect.
Circus Mom said...
Hammer, I loved the idea of the numbers theory thread but it is now giving me a migrain. Could new losty be playing a joke on us? Is this how computer nerds feel about the rest of us. Are we Lost nerds?
Thanks PJ for your response to Bobola.
February 3, 2009 1:16 AM
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Sadly, yes. That is what is happening, we are Lost nerds.
I don't think newlosty is joking, we are just so deep into it that 'new' folks that think they found something that is old is a bit of an irritant. We just need to remember that at one time, we were new to the blog too.
Rita said...
Kudos PJ for your response to Bobola. What an unhappy person. :(
February 3, 2009 6:43 AM
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Yes, thanks PJ. Good thing I was out of commision most of the day. I may have said what I thought if I had been on when he posted. But having a chance to read through, PJ's response was way appropriate than mine would have been.
I thought several times before finally posting a response to Bobola. I know that usually engaging him only makes matters worse. However, since it was a relatively harmless retort, and not on the main thread, I relented. As I have again because I have responded a second time!
: ) P
thanks for the pbs info pj and i also like your encyclopedia analogy...good stuff...and woo hoo to me (and the rest) for fantasy league! i totally don't even remember who i picked, and didn't have my strategy in picking, but hey, it's working :)
Hammer I LOVE it that you put Bobola's response back in the TNPLH 2 thread!!! Too funny!! Please tell me you did it on purpose!
I'm glad you and PJ "tried" to respond to him, (at least I think it's a him), but from MY prior experience, it isn't worth it - it just gets your head bit off and starts something ..... unpleasant.
PJ, what a GREAT idea/explanation using the encyclopedia example - very clear, makes great sense, and explains things without many "holes" - good job! (Hey, I'd LIKE to taked credit for Mirak's photoshopping idea, but, well, it was his/hers)
Rita, I absolutely did that on purpose. After he dissed PJ, there was no way I was gonna leave my response in the 'wrong' thread. (Evil laughter)
Doc, thanks for the fantasy update.
I did catch Chuck and wanted to call PJ and tell her Charlie is alive, and has a new band but I don't have her number (no, I'm not asking for it, just saying)!
I saw that DM was going to be on Chuck, but unless it is already plugged into my Season Pass on TiVo, it gets forgotten. I might have to go find it online.
Still odd, though. I don't particularly LIKE nor dislike the actor, or really even the character. I just am drawn to the idea that he didn't die. *sigh*
: ) P
Thanks Doc!!
To be on top in the LOST fantasy league right now, you have to have Desmond AND Penny AND Daniel. Together, they were worth HUMONGO points!
: ) P
Thanks for the Fantasy League update DocH.
Could you add my team to the watch list? I'm Dakota at rank 2249--doing pretty good!
Thanks,
ForeverLost
They are stealing your thunder on the big island about the Little Prince book.
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