Tuesday, April 7, 2009

Dead is Dead

DEAD (from dictionary.com)

–adjective
* no longer living; deprived of life: dead people; dead flowers; dead animals.
* brain-dead.
* not endowed with life; inanimate: dead stones.
* resembling death; deathlike: a dead sleep; a dead faint.
* bereft of sensation; numb: He was half dead with fright. My leg feels dead.
* lacking sensitivity of feeling; insensitive: dead to the needs of others.
* incapable of being emotionally moved; unresponsive: dead to the nuances of the music.
* utterly tired; exhausted: They felt dead from the six-hour trip.
* (of a language) no longer in use as a sole means of oral communication among a people: Latin is a dead language.
* without vitality, spirit, enthusiasm, or the like: a dead party.
* infertile; barren: dead land.

–noun
* the period of greatest darkness, coldness, etc.: the dead of night; the dead of winter.
* the dead, dead persons collectively: Prayers were recited for the dead.

–adverb
* absolutely; completely: dead right; dead tired.
* with sudden and total stoppage of motion, action, or the like: He stopped dead.
* directly; exactly; straight: The island lay dead ahead.

227 comments:

1 – 200 of 227   Newer›   Newest»
PJSander said...

Just listened to the latest audio podcast... in it D&C said that they had already written the Miles/Hurley TT explanation scene before the first episode of the season aired. I believe that could be true. They ALSO said that they had already written the death episode for Nikki and Paulo before their "premier" episode even aired. I believe this directly contradicts other podcasts in which they told us that they wrote them IN because of the fans, and also wrote them OUT because of the fans.

Things that make you want to say
hmmmmm.

I have said many times that I think N&P were there for a reason. I wonder...

: ) P

lost4ever said...

SWEET! More English lessons. My mother would be so proud.:)

Didn't they also tell us the show wasn't about TT, PJ? I am thinking maybe the Enhanced versions ARE more CANON than their podcasts.:)

I agree about N&P. Since there actually was a runway, I'm assuming 1 whole hour based on 2 characters will come back into play, but maybe not this week.

Hammer said...

The reason I think N & P aren't done is because Vincent was trying to tell everyone they were still alive. Vincent's story isn't over yet either.

BTW, the reason I think Jayne is leah is because she refers to TLI and I think she knows 'who' Tarzan is.

Rita said...

Yeah!!! It's LOST-day!!! Let the festivities begin. Wild Boar for dinner tonight (OK, it's a ham, but close enough!):)

The title is interesting because we have often been lead to believe that dead IS NOT dead, or at least not always. It puts Circus Mom's "body possession" idea in a new light - perhaps the person who died IS DEAD, but the body, as well as the person's memories and skills, etc., do live on in some way, as an Other. Actually, that sounds more like Star Trek - Deep Space 9 (or something like that) where a race of people could get a symbiant (sp?!) being who lived in their body WITH THEM - becoming ONE being, rather than 2. OK, this doesn't make sense to me either! Just thinking out loud (whimper....) Can't wait till tonight!

Rita said...

I first thought that Jayne was PJ, but she always did spell it Jane. Was it you PJ?

I think CherrymissAwesome is Leah because of the spelling/grammer/thought process - seems classic Leah.

Doesn't matter to me, people can be whoever they want to be, as long as they behave themselves and don't stir up trouble.

Hammer said...

True dat, Rita. But being that we are all here in part to work on our detective skills...it's fun to try to figure out who is 'who'. :)

Hammer said...

I think that WHH and D is D are HUGE false clues. I really think that WHH is the rule that has been broken (Alex's death) and will be broken (saving the world). We already know that D isn't D...in some respects.

Tasha said...

LOST-day!! Yay!!! The countdown begins!! I wonder if we are going to have another speach like we did with Miles last week. An explanation with a little humor.

Um, 'who' is TARZAN? I thought it was Hammer LOL.

Tasha said...

I think Jayne is more than one person. LOL.
Jungle juice makes Jayne think bug eyed man is kinda cute! ROFLOL

PJSander said...

I posted as Jane once a few weeks ago. I posted as justme once a few days ago. I posted as anon2 in the Whisperer thread as part of our AFP. Other than that, I have only posted under PJSander.

So nope, not Jayne.

LESS than TWELVE HOURS!

: ) P

PJSander said...

Rita, sorry to read about your hand surgery. You feeling any better today?

: ) P

Anonymous said...
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Lindsay said...

Wow, I watched the sneak peeks over at TBI and W-O-W!! I can't wait for tonight!!!!

Circus Mom said...

I asked our hosts on TBI to ask everyone to play nice and they put a nice reminder message at the top of thecomments.

We've got to behave now. Mom and Dad are watching.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Tasha said...

What is Lost fantasy?

Lindsay said...

Way to go Miss Kim!!

PJSander said...

WTG Miss K!

Whoo hoo L4E!

Lost fantasy, Tasha, was a kind of "fantasy football" game for LOSTaholics sponsored by DarkUFO last June. Anyone who wanted to join had to pick one character per list from eight lists of different kinds of characters (based on their status at the end of Season 4).

Here is where the lists of people are found:
http://tinyurl.com/LOSTfantasylists

(Links don't work, so you will have to cut and paste.)

There are all kinds of ways to gain and lose points. Your character sees the numbers; your character is in someone else's vision or flashback. The list is kind of small to read, but you can find it here:
http://tinyurl.com/LOSTfantasypoints

DocH is kind enough to give us updates on our scores every week.

It is fun.

: ) P

Tasha said...

Thx PJ
I must have missed that lol.

katesFriend said...

Hi all! I missed all last week's discussion due to school/sick :( But, although I'm behind, I will try to comment as much as possible this week! I'm still trying to catch up from last week though! Can't wait until tonight!

Rita said...

PJSander said...
Rita, sorry to read about your hand surgery. You feeling any better today?


Thanks PJ and yes, my hand is healing nicely. It was hard to type last week with the great big bandage on my hand (it didn't stop me though!), but now I am down to a nice managable big bandaide, so I'm good. All ready for LOSTnight!

Circus Mom said...

Stay off TBI today until the episode. It is spoilerish. I think that posters think the sneak peaks are fair game for discussion once they are posted. I watched them so it dosn't ruin it for me.

Jim in Georgia said...

Hammer said...

The reason I think N & P aren't done is because Vincent was trying to tell everyone they were still alive. Vincent's story isn't over yet either.


I hope you're wrong. Nikki and Shannon were in a contest for "Miss Shallow of the Island, 2004."

8) Jim

katesFriend said...

Ok, this is slightly off topic, but seeing as how tonight is likely about Locke/Ben, I thought it might be relevant:

So, in one of my classes we have been discussing various perspectives for understanding the world. There are two perspectives we discuss a lot: utilitarianism vs. transendental form of justice/individualism.

My professor was discussing these and said, and I quote, "Essentially, you can see John Locke and Jeremy Bentham as opposites: Locke is the father of individualism whereas Bentham is the father of utilitarianism."

I just think it is interesting that Locke/Bentham in real life were polar opposites; what does this mean for LOST Locke, who became Bentham, and is now back to Locke?

Just some thoughts!

Hammer said...

Jim, I hope they are done too. But I still think there is something up with Vincent. I know it was in an episode, but there was a snippet where CS told Vincent 'go find my son' when the plane crashed.

PJSander said...

I think that was a mobisode, Hammer.

: ) P

Hammer said...

Circus Mom said...
Stay off TBI today until the episode. It is spoilerish. I think that posters think the sneak peaks are fair game for discussion once they are posted. I watched them so it dosn't ruin it for me.

April 8, 2009 2:36 PM

++++++++++++++
Yes, even though you emailed them and they put up a note...they don't monitor anymore.

PJSander said...

Thanks for the heads up about TBI. I had already read, and tend to skim any that look possibly spoilerish. I did post about the sneak peaks, so we'll see what happens now.

: ) P

Jim in Georgia said...

Hammer said...
Jim, I hope they are done too. But I still think there is something up with Vincent. I know it was in an episode, but there was a snippet where CS told Vincent 'go find my son' when the plane crashed.


In one of the podcasts (this season), D & C said that Vincent is the only character guaranteed to make it to the end. Reminds me, gotta go listen to the newest podcast.

8) Jim

Jim in Georgia said...

Circus Mom said...
Stay off TBI today until the episode.


Thanks for the heads up!

8) Jim

lost4ever said...

You would think the Will and Nick by now would put the RULES at the top of the page instead of at the bottom. Get on that email CM and add that as a suggestion.:) Maybe they can make it in BOLD print or something.

Unfortunately, I already read the episode description so anything that has been stated on TBI, so far, isn't spoilerish to me. I do not watch the sneak peeks, but from my understanding, those are usually the first couple minutes of the show.

I am not sure that the writers meant Locke/Bentham to be polar opposites KF, but maybe. I just hope Locke finds Season 1 Locke during his resurrection on the island. Meaning, I hope the unique character of Locke is back to his good old self.

katesFriend said...

l4e: I can't figure out how Bentham and Locke would be opposites, I just think it must mean something, otherwise why would TPTB juxtapose those two names?

Perhaps, pre-Bentham Locke was focused on himself, his individual search for meaning and his belief the island had a destiny for him to fulfill. Then, when Locke "became" Bentham, he realized he had to give up his individual goal to do something utilitarian, ie save everyone by giving up his own life.

katesFriend said...

Ok, here's more on my Locke/Bentham idea-

So in class, we used this example to discuss the ramifications of a utilitarian vs. transcendant form of justice/individualist/Kantian perspective:

There are 4 innocent people held in a building. The public believes these 4 people are guilty of some heinous crime and must be hanged. If the 4 people (who are definitely innocent of the heinous crime) are released, the public will riot and 100 will die.

Do you hang the 4 innocent people?

Answers:

Utilitarian: Yes. Kill the 4 innocent b/c it will save 100.

Individualist/Kantian: No, save the 4 innocent even if that means 100 will die. It is more important to recognize a transcendent notion of justice (ie not killing innocent, falsely accused folks) and recognize the 4 as ends in themselves rather than means to an end.

So, here is how I think this may relate to LOST: Perhaps the pre-Bentham Locke would have saved the 4 innocent but now the post-Bentham Locke will look at things from a utilitarian perspective, possibly sacrificing something/someone for the greater good.

Or, perhaps this is all irrelevant :)

PJSander said...

I like where the Locke/Bentham thinking is going... but just to put a kink in the process - Locke didn't choose Bentham as his name, Widmore did. Does that change anything?

Furthermore, could Alpert have had contact with Emily Locke prior to her giving birth (or even pregnancy). She was adamant that he be called John. Why?

: ) P

lost4ever said...

Now I understand KF. It sounds like your on the money there.

katesFriend said...

PJ, yes! I may be making this up but didn't he tell Locke he named him Bentham b/c obviously Locke's mom had a sense of humor by naming him John Locke?

So maybe Widmore was hinting to Locke, time to change your thinking buddy!

Rita said...

katesFriend said...
Perhaps, pre-Bentham Locke was focused on himself, his individual search for meaning and his belief the island had a destiny for him to fulfill. Then, when Locke "became" Bentham, he realized he had to give up his individual goal to do something utilitarian, ie save everyone by giving up his own life.



Exactly what I was thinking. Season 1 Locke was all about self. Even the other survivors noticed it - they mentioned that Locke might be tired of getting them all boar meat, etc. As Bentham, he was very tuned into the "greater good", "what the island needed", "what was best for all" etc. He was already evolving into this before leaving the island. It remains to be seen which Locke is on the island now.

PJSander said...

In fairness, I think Locke was about the greater good of the island long before he left it. I mean that's WHY he left it, wasn't it?

As far as Emily Locke having a sense of humor, I think I would be hard pressed to find a sixteen year old who knows who John Locke is (other than on LOST). JMO.

: ) P

Tasha said...

I always thought that John was looking for his purpose in life and why he was there. The island healing him and him seeing, whatever he saw(bright light we have never seen,) was a sign to him and for him to keep being able to walk, he needed to give the island what it wants. At one point he said Boone was a sacrafice the island needed. Not sure if any of this is relevant to what ya'll are discussing but it seems interesting LOL. I was thinking more along the lines that at first he was only worried about himself and the island. Still seems that way to me i guess...I think...I'm a little confused.

I also do not understand why Emily would name him John. I didn't know who John Locke was at 16 but Emily may have been "special" in some way too. Or MAYBE she just liked the name John and it was fate.

Liz S said...

Hi, all!
re: John Locke, J Bent--
I like the juxtaposition, KatesFriend--And if you think back to how Locke killed Naomi, an action I found stupid and heinous, from the utilitarian POV, that action was justified because it might have resulted in the saving of other lives/stopping an action that would hurt the Island.

But, yeah, not a utilitarian, so I thought it was awful! And a trashing of John's character.

But to go further with that, everything Ben Linus has done might be along those lines as well, sacrificing many individuals for some greater good.

The problem is always, who gets to decide what that Good is? And, you know, if it's not good for 'me' I might have a lot to say against it!!!

katesFriend said...

Ok, I totally agree PJ, a rare 16 yo intentionally names her child after a famous philosopher, but I think Widmore (or someone, lol!) at least said this at some point.

Very good examples Rita. I agree Locke cared about the greater good before he left. Maybe pre- 815 Locke was individualistic and since post-815 Locke has become focused on the island's greater good, Widmore bestowed Locke with a new moniker - Bentham!

katesFriend said...

LizS - Yes! I am no utilitarian either, so a lot of this whole 'greater good of the island' stuff has been frustrating me!

Although, to play devil's advocate, there is a certain point where utility will always win over a transcendent notion of justice. I would definitely save the 4 innocent people even if it meant 100 die, but when the number starts to be 1 million, or 'all of humanity' then I think I choose utility!!

Rita said...

Yes, as I said he was evolving even before he left the island, and it will be interesting to see where he lands now on the philosophys.

Jim in Georgia said...

katesFriend said...
PJ, yes! I may be making this up but didn't he tell Locke he named him Bentham b/c obviously Locke's mom had a sense of humor by naming him John Locke?


Actually, Widmore said Locke's parents had a sense of humor. Curiouser and curiouser.

8) Jim

Rita said...

katesFriend said...

Although, to play devil's advocate, there is a certain point where utility will always win over a transcendent notion of justice. I would definitely save the 4 innocent people even if it meant 100 die, but when the number starts to be 1 million, or 'all of humanity' then I think I choose utility!!


I hear you Kate, but the problem with making such a decision, is that we don't REALLY ever know for SURE that 100, or 1,000,000 will die. We can't overide everyone else's free will. We save the 4 because it is the right thing to do, and we hope justice will prevail for everyone else, and they will also do the right thing.

katesFriend said...

Thanks, JiG. I thought I remembered that. I always wondered if the real Sawyer was really Locke's dad. Maybe Alpert gave her the idea!

Ok, so maybe it goes like this: Alpert tells Locke's mom to name him John. John grows up, researches his name, adopts that philosophy. Now, he is a 'greater good' kinda guy so Bentham fits him much better. Has he identified himself to anyone post-316 yet?

katesFriend said...

Rita, you made me think of something. I have always thought that there will never be a 'good' and 'bad' group on LOST. I think it will all be relative - what is 'good/bad' will depend on how you look at things, what you value, what you see as the purpose of everything, etc

Liz S said...

In Lost Land, the Rule of Law is sadly lacking.

Or the Rules of the Island are mysterious, at least to us, which makes it frustrating because you can't quite say what's going on.

The so-called 'good' of the Island may be good for the natives or it may be good for humanity or it may be good for the Earth or the universe, or it may NOT be. So when John gives up things/sacrifices for this 'good' I don't know if he knows for sure just what he's buying into. And, he doesn't seem to question it too much, except at the end when he was about to kill himself.

These questions make it interesting, but you also KNOW it could go so horribly awry, because Faith is great and all, but you have to be careful what you put your Faith in.

The next leap you take might be off a cliff!!!!

lost4ever said...

KF: I always wondered if the real Sawyer was really Locke's dad

Cooper confirmed he was Locke's father during the episode "The Brig" S3E19.

COOPER: It means that bald headed bastard outside the door is my son.

SAWYER: Come again?

COOPER: My son. As in I'm his father. You do speak English?

Tasha said...

I wonder why Cooper was trying con Emily. Or is that even not important? Seemed like he was only in relationships to con people.

PJ...Are you female? Do you watch Days??

PJSander said...

I am female.

I do not watch DOOL. My psycho-ex-roommate was a fanatic, so I learned things by association. *bg*

I know that Cooper said he was Locke's father, but honestly that whole thing is hinky to me. Maybe he was, or maybe Cooper just thought he was, or maybe he went along with it since he stole Locke's kidney. I never really bought the Swoozie Kurtz as Locke's mother thing either. But I guess I am always looking for the holes in the story!

: ) P

katesFriend said...

This may sound mean, but if Cooper really is Locke's father, why is he so special? I mean, I know a lot of why Locke 'is special' has come about b/c of his TT to Alpert, thereby being the own creator of his specialness. But, I still think there is something truly special about John Locke and having a father connected to the island mystique makes sense to me!

katesFriend said...

Ok, here I go really, really far out on a limb, just for fun, lol, or as PJ would say, *g* :)

Years ago, I read about an alternate theory to the Big Bang theoory of the universe's creation. I can't remember the details, only the basics: instead of some 'big bang' that started the universe's expansion, the universe 'willed' (for lack of a clearer term) itself into existence. That is, one instant there is nothing; the next, the universe. Whatever/whoever/?? does this supposed 'willing' I guess is up for the individual to decide.

So, perhaps the island willed itself into existence. Or, John Locke willed himself into existence, has no father, and Cooper's belief is caused by one of the things PJ mentioned.

(I just read what I typed - sounds a little crazy but I'm going to hit publish anyway!)

Circus Mom said...

All this makes me think of 24 and the decisions to let hastages die to stop terriost attacks. Simalar dilemas but different context.

lost4ever said...

KF:This may sound mean, but if Cooper really is Locke's father, why is he so special?
Ben's father was a workman.

As for Locke's mother Emily, I know we have debated this b4 and I am sticking with the evidence we have been given. There was a 99 percent DNA match that she was indeed his mother. Therefore, Locke and Ben can not be brothers.

Now, if they feel like going back and changing the evidence we have been given about Cooper ( 2 season later ) and Emily ( 4 seasons later ), it wouldn't surprise me. For me though, Cooper and Swoozie Kurtz are Locke's parents.

Rita said...

lost4ever said...As for Locke's mother Emily, I know we have debated this b4 and I am sticking with the evidence we have been given. There was a 99 percent DNA match that she was indeed his mother. Therefore, Locke and Ben can not be brothers.

Agreed, but how about a different connection? Maybe Grandpa Ray is Emily's dad as well as Christian's? Just speculating out loud. That would make them cousins. Would make sense.

Rita said...

AHHH I take that back! It would make John and JACK cousins!! Sorry!! Still like the idea though.

Tasha said...

L4E

I always thought it was part of a con. Don't really know though....although it would be so awesome!!!

PJSander said...

There was a 99 percent DNA match that she was indeed his mother. Therefore, Locke and Ben can not be brothers.

That was what the private investigator told Locke. That doesn't make it true! And if we're taking characters at their word, remember that the older Emily Locke (Swoozie Kurtz) told Locke that he was immaculately conceived!

: ) P

lost4ever said...

LOL. Ok PJ, you can hold to the theory that the PI was lying, I guess anyhting anyone says on the show might not possibly true.:)

It could be a long con Tasha, only the long con would be by D&C.

Tasha said...

I just want them to be brothers so bad! lol. I was hoping we would one day find out it was just a lie.

I have to be honest, I am dreading finding out more about this temple if it picks up from last week. It will be like the night we all saw the statue. I stayed up for 6 hours after the show reading up on every egyptian god and ALSO gods from other ancient cultures.(Since I had always thought the Mayans played in on this..guess not.) I am already reading up on ancient temples right now and anything..ANYTHING..even something on a wall is gonna set me off tonight. Sorry just rambling:)

PJSander said...

LOL. Tasha. I hear you!

: ) P

lost4ever said...

See you here when TBI crashes at 10:02.:)

Rita said...

Haha Tasha! I feel your pain, but you're my kind of LOSTie!

Miss Kim said...

Thanks Doc for posting the scores!

Jim in Georgia said...

katesFriend said...
Thanks, JiG. I thought I remembered that. I always wondered if the real Sawyer was really Locke's dad. Maybe Alpert gave her the idea!


Funny, I never thought of Sawyer as a candidate for "Dad." There was a huge argument on the LP about Alpert being the father because of a literal interpretation of Grandma saying, "He's twice your age!" I was always in the Cooper camp.

Sixty-plus posts and the episode hasn't aired. Anyone for four hundred? See ya in an hour or so.

8) Jim

PJSander said...

Bye Bye Caesar!

If you hear the whispers RUN!

LOL.

: ) P

PJSander said...

I freaking LOVE this show!

: ) P

PJSander said...

FAN-freaking-TASTIC casting on the young adult Widmore (that spoke to BenBoy)! I think it might even have been CGI, because it could NOT have been Alan Dale (which it WAS when BenTeen brought AlexBaby to the camp).

: ) P

Miss Kim said...

Seriously....these commercials...they're killin' me.

katesFriend said...

Haha guys, I swear to Jacob I didn't know what this epi was about when I posted that about utility v. justice. It has been all about that!

PJSander said...

Teen Charles was Tom Connelly.

Young Adult Charles was David S. Lee.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1605085/

"Old" Charles is Alan Dale.

: ) P

Tasha said...

OMG! The things going thru my head right now. They need to slow down but I have a million things to say!!!

PJSander said...

Penny and Desmond LIVE! Desmond was the one to kick Ben's puny white a$$!

WHOOO HOOO!

: ) P

PJSander said...

So MANY answers tonight! I am going to have to watch this three or four more times! ACK!

: ) P

Tasha said...

If anyone says that was a filler episode....I'm gonna SCREAM! What was up with the Ajira survivors? What lies in the shadow of the statue??? Here goes the research!

PJSander said...

I defy ANYONE to say that episode was a "filler" episode. That was one AMAZING episode.

So MANY answers! I want to watch it again RIGHT NOW, but I can't because I am not at my own house!

: ) P

Tasha said...

A person's shadow, Sheut (šwt in Egyptian), was always present. It was believed that a person could not exist without a shadow, nor a shadow without a person, therefore, Egyptians surmised that a shadow contained something of the person it represents. For this reason statues of people and deities were sometimes referred to as their shadows.

The shadow was represented graphically as a small human figure painted completely black as well, as a figure of death, or servant of Anubis

PJSander said...

Great mind type alike, Tasha!

I know, I know! What lies in the shadow!?

I missed seeing Juliet, Sawyer, Miles, Hurley and Kate, though (not so much, Jack).

: ) P

katesFriend said...

Ok, loved the episode! But, the cloud of memories was a little cheesy ;)

Was Widmore being exiled via the sub? I thought he said Ben tricked him into turning the FDW.

And did anyone catch what Ben saw on the wall in the temple right before his torch went out? I don't have dvr so I can't rewatch.

lost4ever said...

I think the shadow saying was some sort of code to identify themselves as Others.

Tasha said...

L4E

Now that you said that, it did sound quite demanding. Hmmmm. You might be on to something. LOL. What did one snowman say to the other snowman??

Hammer said...

Now we know(I think) that the sub actually did go back to the real world....no?

Hammer said...

lost4ever said...
I think the shadow saying was some sort of code to identify themselves as Others.

April 8, 2009 10:11 PM

+++++++++++
That's how I took it.

lost4ever said...

Hammer:

Now we know(I think) that the sub actually did go back to the real world....no?
Right. And were there 2 rules introduced to us? Leaving the island frequently and/or having a daughter with an outsider?

lost4ever said...

Was Widmore off building the Lamp Post?

Tasha said...

I did't see ellie anywhere...

katesFriend said...

Ok, I'm confused. Baby Alex would have been in 1988/89, right? But the purge didn't happen until 1992. How did Ben raise Alex and still work for Dharma? I know we have discussed this before, but tonight made it seem like Ben lived with the Others when he found Alex.

Hammer said...

lost4ever said...
Was Widmore off building the Lamp Post?

April 8, 2009 10:19 PM

+++++++++++=
Yes, he was a double agent of sorts. He was off the island often, becoming a funder of DHARMA, gets them on the island and gets banished after the purge.

Hammer said...

katesFriend said...
Ok, I'm confused. Baby Alex would have been in 1988/89, right? But the purge didn't happen until 1992. How did Ben raise Alex and still work for Dharma? I know we have discussed this before, but tonight made it seem like Ben lived with the Others when he found Alex.

April 8, 2009 10:26 PM

++++++++++++
I would guess he was sneaking out when dad was passed out.

lost4ever said...

Right KF. He also had a Dharma jumpsuit on when he killed his father. Hopefully we will find out next week what happens to Lil Ben after his temple visit. Did he go back to Dharma or was he being raised as an Other?

Rita said...

katesFriend said...I know we have discussed this before, but tonight made it seem like Ben lived with the Others when he found Alex.

Ethan too. Frequent visitors maybe?

PJSander said...

I think Ben would have had to go live with DHARMA at some point before the purge. Maybe he stayed with Alpert until just before and then returned under some pretense.

I thought that young boy with BenTeen might have been Ethan as well.

So it was "Charles in Charge" on the island when BenBoy was brought to the temple, so does that mean Ellie was off-island? I want to know about her.

I am thinking that Widmore's procreation off-island was probably fathering Penny, yes? But did he leave any little Widmores behind when he was banished? Charlotte? Libby? Daniel? Miles? (okay, that was a bit of a joke, but I guess it COULD be true!)

Yes, I now have the "Charles in Charge" theme song stuck in my head!

: ) P

Rita said...

And now the song is in MY head! Thanks a lot! :)

Hammer said...

And......now me three.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
katesFriend said...

So do Alpert/Ben/Others not know Charles funded Dharma?

It seems Charles was still 'leader' when Dharma was on the island. So likely his trips to the outside world, when he fathered Penny, he was also helping Dharma set up shop. Why would Charles intentionally set up a conflict like that? It seems sending Dharma to the island put his own life at risk, no?

PJSander said...

Hey, I can think of WORSE things to be stuck in your head. Shall I name a couple?

LOL.

Okay, so if the temple wall shows Anubis... maybe the 4TS is of Nephthys, who with Ra, are Anubis's parents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephthys

Here is Tasha's screencap from TBI:
http://tinyurl.com/templewallsmokey

: ) P

Rita said...

Well its off to bed with me - up at 5a.m. and off to work! See you all in the morning, happy blogging!
(Charles in charge, of our days and our nights... Thanks again PJ! :)

PJSander said...

We know the ancient Egyptians were all about the sun. Depending on which was the sun is facing, the TEMPLE would be in the shadow of the statue. As would the well, and therefore the wheel.

: ) P

Hammer said...

katesFriend said...
So do Alpert/Ben/Others not know Charles funded Dharma?

It seems Charles was still 'leader' when Dharma was on the island. So likely his trips to the outside world, when he fathered Penny, he was also helping Dharma set up shop. Why would Charles intentionally set up a conflict like that? It seems sending Dharma to the island put his own life at risk, no?

April 8, 2009 10:46 PM

+++++++++++++++
Goes back to my age old arguement that Widmore was starting an evil empire. The war will be between good and evil. Sorry folks, IMO Ben is on the good side...Widmore...not so much.

Hammer said...

I don't remeber which gods we talked about, but I am thinking that the one(s) that hold souls until 'approved' to pass is involved.....whisperers are waiting for help now that the statue is destroyed...that god isn't around or is being held captive (Jacob) and the whisperers are stuck.

Hammer said...

Darn...now that Caeser(the dog whisperer)is dead, we will never hear what Vincent has to say. LOL

lost4ever said...

Caesar dead??? Not on this island.:)

Jim in Georgia said...

Well, I guess we know that Alex wasn't absorbed by the Island and reborn.

How did Widmore's frequent trips off-Island and having a child with an outsider get to him being tricked by Ben? Was sex with the unknown woman a setup by Ben?

If Widmore was transported off the Island by submarine, how did he learn about the exit point in Tunisia?

If the boat "Our Mutual Friend" was being used by Desmond and Penny in the Mediterranean and to sail to England, how did it end up in Long Beach? Blooper?

The Others have horses or at least a horse.

How did Richard learn that Jacob wanted Ben saved?

G'night, all.

8) Jim

Hammer said...

lost4ever said...
Caesar dead??? Not on this island.:)

April 8, 2009 11:05 PM

++++++++++++++
LOL. Well, Ben the liar did say that dead is dead, even on the island...except for Locke...which scares the hell of him.

Hammer said...

Which BTW, earlier discussion today about the WHH and D is D...I like my chances that these policies are to be broken.

PJSander said...

Darn...now that Caeser(the dog whisperer)is dead, we will never hear what Vincent has to say. LOL

GROAAAAAN.

: ) P

Hammer said...

PJSander said...
Darn...now that Caeser(the dog whisperer)is dead, we will never hear what Vincent has to say. LOL

GROAAAAAN.

: ) P

April 8, 2009 11:13 PM
++++++++++++++++++++++
Awww come on...if Tarzan said it...
LOL.

Hammer said...

Favorite line: When Ben said whatever is about to come out of the jungle he can’t control…and Locke popped out….and he was right without knowing it…he can no longer control Locke…per Smokey(Alex). LOL.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
lost4ever said...

Hammer: LOL. Well, Ben the liar did say that dead is dead, even on the island...except for Locke...which scares the hell of him

Ben must be unaware of CS.

Lindsay said...

Doc, I like your theory about Smokey being the shadow the statue...but how on earth would Ilana know about all of that? I think she's working for Widmore, I think perhaps when Ben told him he was going back, Widmore called up Ilana and used her to find Sayid and get on that plane?

PJSander said...

Well, I guess we know that Alex wasn't absorbed by the Island and reborn.

Some on TBI are suggesting that was a manifestation of Smokey, just as Yemi was. Not sure on either.

How did Widmore's frequent trips off-Island and having a child with an outsider get to him being tricked by Ben? Was sex with the unknown woman a setup by Ben?

Hmm... if so, that would be mighty tricky! LOL.

If Widmore was transported off the Island by submarine, how did he learn about the exit point in Tunisia?

Maybe the sub only took him "so far" but still, I think he must have found out AFTER Ben apparated there. Perhaps he knew it was Tunisia (polar bear, Charlotte), but not quite WHERE in Tunisia.

If the boat "Our Mutual Friend" was being used by Desmond and Penny in the Mediterranean and to sail to England, how did it end up in Long Beach? Blooper?

First, I LOVE the boat name. That was a nice shout out to Desmond in season two. As far as the boat getting to Long Beach, I imagine that Desmond sailed there immediately after seeing Widmore. That's some magic timing though to cross the Atlantic, sail through the Panama Canal and up the west coast of North America, in what... a week?

The Others have horses or at least a horse.

I am pretty sure Mikhail had a horse, because Locke knew he wasn't alone because the stirrups were not the right size for him or something.

: ) P

PJSander said...

I still feel like Ben is responsible for getting Sayid on that plane. Maybe when Widmore found out that Ben was returning to the island, he found out about Ilana, and put other people on the plane as well.

Not sure where Caesar fits though. He definitely looked like he was SEARCHING for something in Ben's office that first time.

: ) P

Hammer said...

Off to bed....check ya'll on the morrow.

PJSander said...

No Bonzo? I feel gypped! LOL.

Bedtime for Jane! (That's Bonzo Jane, not Tarzan Jane)

G'night all.

: ) P

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Hammer said...

Ooops...sorry PJ...not really good this time....

Hammer
Comment 211, posted 8 minutes ago - Quote and reply
Bedtime for Bonzo.

I think Smokey judged Ben the same as he judged Eko. Only Eko was killed because he did not repent, but said he did what he had to do to survive. See below.

Ben showed he repented, was spared, but on condition.

I believe Smokey manifests himself to someone that is dear to the judged person.

EKO: I ask for no forgiveness, Father. For I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive.

[Yemi lets his hand fall from the cross and Eko lowers it.]

EKO: A small boy once asked me if I was a bad man. If I could answer him now, I would tell him that… when I was a young boy, I killed a man to save my brother’s life. I am not sorry for this. I am proud of this!

[Eko drops to his knees in front of Yemi and spreads his arms out.]

EKO: I did not ask for the life that I was given. But it was given, nonetheless. And with it… I did my best.

[Yemi stares down into Eko’s eyes. He looks angry.]

YEMI: [Almost in disgust] You speak to me as if I were your brother.

[Eko cringes back from him, scared and angry.]

EKO: Who are you?

lost4ever said...

I cant sleep until I see Secrets of Lost

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
lost4ever said...

Eastern time zone. Kimmel comes on at 12:05 here right after Nightline.

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Tasha said...

That sux...I didn't realize it til they started talking about American idol.

lost4ever said...

Yeah I didn't realize Kimmel was a repeat until Jin came on, wasn't really watching it. Sorry I could have warned you.

Rita said...

Good morning everyone! I'm probably the only one up - since you were all here till so late!

I haven't caught up on TBI yet, so I don't know if this has been said, but I was thinking about Ben asking Locke about how the "knowing" works - "do you just wake up one day knowing..." - it sounded like a real question. I'm thinking He never REALLY knew what Jacob/the island wanted, but survived on his wits and his "plan". The Others followed him because they THOUGHT he really knew. John scares him because he sees that John REALLY DOES KNOW. I think Alpert knew that Ben was faking it. Still REALLY curious about what exactly Alpert's role is!

PJSander said...

Good point, Rita.

I had weird LOST dreams last night. No more chinese food on LOST nights! (Didn't get to choose - not home.)

One thing that crossed my mind this morning... the Egyptians were all about the sun, right? We have a CHARACTER named Sun. Coincidence?

: ) P

Jim in Georgia said...

Ready?

Ilana and several of the coach crowd from Ajira 316 are members of the new Dharma (not an acronym) initiative.

The large metal case contains a new SONAR beacon (these people love the word SONAR, although they may actually be right this time.) to replace the one that had its circuits fried by the electromagnetic pulse when the Swan imploded.

"What lies in the shadow of the statue?" The Temple, but only one certain days (one day?) of the year. I need a navigator here, but I think that day would vary with the latitude of the Island; so if it's moving..., but never mind. The question is also a challenge with "The Temple" being the password and a statement of purpose.

When the beacon is deployed, the new Dharma will be able to find the Island and send more people to take the Island away from the Others, they hope.

That's the war that's coming.

Whew!

In passing:

I still like the idea that there's some teleportation-oriented way of leaving the Island. Maybe it's one person at a time and putting Widmore in the booth would have meant losing control of him after he got zapped to his destination.

Our Mutual Friend: It takes a while to cross the Atlantic Ocean. In Florida, I knew a Naval officer who had the independent wherewithal to own a sailboat. When he was reassigned to California, the sailboat went onto a flatbed truck and he and his wife drove to the Golden State. They explained that it would take weeks to sail south to the Canal then back north again.

After Ben kidnapped/rescued Alex, he must have left her in the care of a wet nurse among the Others, unless they had a store of baby formula we don't know about. Ben was living a double life between late 88 (or earlier) and December 92. This may suggest that carrying to term was not an issue for 1988-era Other women.

8) Jim

katesFriend said...

Rita said:
I haven't caught up on TBI yet, so I don't know if this has been said, but I was thinking about Ben asking Locke about how the "knowing" works - "do you just wake up one day knowing..." - it sounded like a real question. I'm thinking He never REALLY knew what Jacob/the island wanted, but survived on his wits and his "plan".


Rita, for some reason when he said this, it made me think of Desmond just waking up and suddenly 'remembering' about Faraday. Does Ben know about this? It seemed to me he was asking Locke if he had always known or if when he came back alive, all of a sudden he knew.

Circus Mom said...

Katesfriend, I loved the 4 innocent people question. I took it with me to the Moose Lodge last night (I work there on Wed. evenings). and asked everyone the question. It prompted much discussion and actually made several people understand why I love lost and TLI.
It made me think of Star Trek and "The good of the many vs. the good of the few" as being an expected concept for the future.
Also mad me think of the decisions Jack Bauer and others have to make on 24. Made up for not being able to watch Lost till 1 AM.

Rita,
Rita said:
I haven't caught up on TBI yet, so I don't know if this has been said, but I was thinking about Ben asking Locke about how the "knowing" works - "do you just wake up one day knowing..." - it sounded like a real question. I'm thinking He never REALLY knew what Jacob/the island wanted, but survived on his wits and his "plan".
I kind of heard Bens comment as sarcastic too, in a way. Kind of questioning whether John "really" knows. Perhaps because Ben dosn't and he still has his doubts.

Now I will try and catch up a bit on TBI. I am only on comment 50 so it will take awhile.

Circus Mom said...

Only to 153 on TBI so I am posting this here. I will add it there when I catch up if it's not covered yet so let me know.

What if Smokey IS the statues shadow?

PJSander said...

I like the theory CM. I think it has been mentioned on TBI. I am not getting to the computer very often today, so I am having a hard time keeping up myself.

: ) P

Circus Mom said...

Tasha - Jayne?

Lindsay said...

http://michaelsautter.newsvine.com/_news/2009/04/07/2652089-five-things-that-could-be-in-hugos-guitar-case

Funny stuff, sorry I had to post the whole link, I don't know how to do the tiny url thing...

LINS

lost4ever said...

CM:Tasha - Jayne?

LOL. I thought the same thing.:)

I love the whole Sonar comment JIG, out of the box.

lost4ever said...

tinyurl.com LINS

It's easier than I thought it was when I first learned.

Rita said...

I still haven't had a chance to check out TBI yet, so this may have already been said (so my apologies if it has). I was thinking more about my idea that Ben really doesn't "know" and has been surviving (and fooling everyone) by his wits. I know that Circus Mom and katesFriend felt that Ben was merely being sarcastic to John when he asked him "when did you start knowing...", but I still feel that it was nevertheless a real question - just delivered in Ben's arrogant manner. Locke is revealing Ben's lack of REAL knowledge - questioning why did they move into Dharmaville, asking Ben if he is "sure about that" when told that he doesn't have the slightest idea what the island wants".

I am thinking that perhaps this is what Widmore meant when he said that Ben "tricked him" into leaving the island. Could be that Ben TOLD him that Jacob wanted him banished - for some flimsy sounding reasons. Since then, Widmore discovered that Ben was NOT really "in the know" with Jacob, so he tried to come back to the island that "banished him". With me so far?

So then, I'm thinking that Charles (and maybe others as well) have had their own Smokey Meetings, where they were told to toe the line "or else" - that would explain Charles COMPLETE demeanor change when told that "Jacob wants this...". So, if Ben said "Jacob said you are to be banished", Charles would not DARE to disobey.
OK. Let the debunking begin :)

Circus Mom said...

Rita,

I agree with you. Even though I thought Ben sounded sarcastic and think he was thinking that since he (Ben) didn't really know than of course he (Locke) didn't really know either.

Jim in Georgia said...

Jim in Georgia said...

In passing:


Oops! Should've added my miss on not remembering the horse from the Flame.

8( Jim

Jim in Georgia said...

DodH said (on TBI)...

True. Properly documented firearms may be shipped in approved containers on certain long haul carriers. Just one thing. NOT with ammo.

...


So, how would I get my ammo from point A to point B? Empty, those rifles are less effective than the flaming arrows. It's always possible someone we know has a controlling interest in Ajira and can around those troubling little rules.

8) Jim

Hammer said...

Yeah, I'm am thinking that the case has weapons AND MAYBE a locating device...but for sure IMO whatever they need to wage war.

PJSander said...

Things are getting a bit long winded on TBI and with my more limited access to the computer, I am having a hard time keeping up.

There doesn't seem to be any one (or two or three) thing that is the focus of the week's episode. I am desperate to watch again, but probably won't be able to until I am home.

Something is niggling at me though. Some people saw Yemi as a manifestation of Smokey, and now Alex in the same way. I suppose that could be true, but would that make Kate's horse, Christian, Dave, Wet Walt, Taller Ghost Walt, the same?

I need things to fit into neat little packages, even if I don't understand the packages.

LOL

: ) P

Lindsay said...

http://tinyurl.com/HurleysGuitar


Thanks L4E!

katesFriend said...

CircusMom- So glad the 4 innocent people question sparked a discussion! I love hearing new opinions on questions like that!

Re: Ben's comment - I do think Ben was really questioning Locke about how he knew-I think Ben suddenly is questioning everything he has done for the island, now that it seems Locke is the favored one. The question just reminded me of Desmond waking up and suddenly having a new memory. I wouldn't be surprised if Ben knows something new now that he woke up. Maybe since when the Temple took his innocence/memory of the shooting, Ben has just been blindly putting his faith in the island/smokey/Jacob to lead him. Now that he woke up, if the losties really did change anything, maybe Ben is starting to understand everything better.

PJSander said...

Just rewatched - a couple of things...

Locke took his shoes off before getting on the outrigger and then put them back on again. No one else did. No one has EVER done. What's with the shoes. Is it that the wearer of the shoes has the knowledge? Are these LOST's ruby slippers?

Also, several times over the course of the episode, one character said something about 'THIS' is what Jacob wants. It got me back to the Emperor's New Clothes theory.

Suppose they are ALL just pretending to know what Jacob wants. No one second guesses anyone else about what Jacob said because none of them really hears him and no one wants to confess they've been making it up all along?

This is kind of what every religion has accused every OTHER religion of being. Myths and stories made up to explain things that were not yet explained by science. People being overcome and thinking it is a higher power speaking to them. What is Smokey *is* 'Jacob' and the rest is just stuff that people made up to account for things they don't understand.

Ben, Alpert, Widmore - all pretend to hear things from Jacob, and since they are all pretending (and each thinks he is the only one), no one questions the others.

Maybe too far-fetched...

: ) P

PJSander said...

Oh yeah, one more thing... when Ben was talking to Sun about how he didn't expect Locke to live again, it was definitely hints of Henry Gale. Ben was acting JUST like he did when he was prisoner in the Swan station.

: ) P

Rita said...

PJ said...Suppose they are ALL just pretending to know what Jacob wants. No one second guesses anyone else about what Jacob said because none of them really hears him and no one wants to confess they've been making it up all along?

This is kind of what I have been saying - but only about Ben. You could be right to include others, but I don't know that I would go so far as to say EVERYONE - we do know that John really heard him say "help me!".

I think others have had encounters with Smokey, where a manifestation that was meaningful to THEM told them something like "obey every word your leaders say - OR ELSE!" Leaders would then be able to get away with saying ANYTHING in Jacob's name, and followers, not wanting to find out what "or else" means, would jump to the bidding, even accepting a banishment from the island. This is how I believe Ben "tricked" Widmore. Widmore found him out and has been trying to get back ever since. (I feel that if he still felt he was legitimately banished, he would not be trying to get back).

Circus Mom said...

PJ, I rewatched too and here is what I got.

I think Locke did the thing with the shoes to remind us who's they were.


I think they found the guns in the Hydra. I think the crate is holding Widmores body. Widmore sent Dexmond to Mrs. Hawdings because he knew whe was trying to send the O6 back and he wanted to follow them. Ilana and Co. are there to bring his body to the temple to be healed.

Ben protects innocents. Children are innocents. Ben lost his innocence when RA took him into the temple. The rule Widmore broke is he killed a true innocent, Alex.

PJSander said...

You could be right to include others, but I don't know that I would go so far as to say EVERYONE - we do know that John really heard him say "help me!".

True. Except that John heard "help me" and we all (including Locke) thought it meant Jacob said it. Perhaps Ben set it up with a recording and a hologram (remember the Brady Bunch episode!?) just to trick Locke into believing he heard it. Who knows.

: ) P

PJSander said...

re: Duke

Sniff and swim, Hammer. Sniff and swim!

: ) P

Rita said...

That could be PJ, but we do know that Jacob/Smokey REALLY DO MANIFEST and speak. We've seen several manifestations, and so presumably have the Others. That would be pretty hard to fake!

Rita said...

PJSander said...
re: Duke

Sniff and swim, Hammer. Sniff and swim!


Agreed. Don't bite Hammer!!! Biting means death! Not worth it.
:)

PJSander said...

I think they found the guns in the Hydra. I think the crate is holding Widmores body. Widmore sent Dexmond to Mrs. Hawdings because he knew whe was trying to send the O6 back and he wanted to follow them. Ilana and Co. are there to bring his body to the temple to be healed.



That crate was REALLY big - if Widmore is in there, he brought his own bed, a crate of McCutcheons, the journal of the Black Rock and three of his closest friends! LOL.

As for the weapons, sure there are regulations about what you can bring on a plane, even in the cargo hold, but this is WIDMORE, the man who had Sun pulled off a flight to LA so he could chastise her in his own little interrogation room in the airport. Someone with that clout can put a crate of anything he WANTS on a plane. Not that he did, just saying he COULD.

: ) P

PJSander said...

That could be PJ, but we do know that Jacob/Smokey REALLY DO MANIFEST and speak. We've seen several manifestations, and so presumably have the Others. That would be pretty hard to fake!

Oh I agree. I just don't think that everyone who pretends to communicate with Jacob really does.

: ) P

Rita said...

Me either! That's the point I have been trying to make :)

PJSander said...

Would anyone mind if we pre-hash "Some Like it Hoth" based ONLY on the title (and not any previews that might be out there)?

The only hoth reference I know is Star Wars. I would like to discuss it a bit because I am NOT a Star Wars aficionado and would like input from someone who is, please.

If anyone objects, I understand. Just speak up!

: ) p

PJSander said...

Circus Mom, or someone pretending to be CM, posted on TBI that she can't find TLI. I gave a hint that anyone from the early days of TLI will remember: Ben F Cavier 546.

Hope she finds us again!

If any of you newer TLI'ers would like to know what the hint is, let me know!

: ) P

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
PJSander said...

where two of the Losties have to do some gener-bendin'-pretendin'

Miles and Hurley dress up as back-up dancers for ABBA, The Island Tour.

LOL

: ) P

PJSander said...

I think CherrymissAwesome is Leah because of the spelling/grammer/thought process - seems classic Leah.

Post 479 confirms this for me.

: ) P

Jim in Georgia said...

PJSander said...

Would anyone mind if we pre-hash "Some Like it Hoth" based ONLY on the title (and not any previews that might be out there)?


The best I can say is that my first impression was that Hoth was an Egyptian deity. That didn't work, obviously.

The Wikipdeia page Hoth (disambiguation) will take you to Höðr, a Norse god (demigod?) also known as Hoth. He assists his brother in slaying Baldr with an arrow made of mistletoe. How romantic(?)!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%B6%C3%B0r

I have no idea where that tidbit might take us.

If any of you newer TLI'ers would like to know what the hint is, let me know!

I always access from may desktop in my study, but just in case...

8) Jim

Jim in Georgia said...

PJSander said...
I think CherrymissAwesome is Leah because of the spelling/grammer/thought process - seems classic Leah.

Post 479 confirms this for me.


I love her modest signature!

8) Jim

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
PJSander said...

Back when I first started TLI, it was because TBI kept having server errors. It was BEFORE the island actually moved on the show, but we talked on TBI (when we could actually get ON TBI) about how it felt like "they moved the island" when we got the server errors.

Anyway, this was back in May of 2008, and I started this blog in the aftermath of the "Cabin Fever" episode.

During the rest of the season, there were anagram discussions (Hoffs Drawler being the big one). Then ESB (where is ESB lately?) asked about finding TLI, and Hammer gave the easter egg "Ben F Cavier" which was an anagram of Cabin Fever.

So the link to find TLI is on the Cabin Fever thread, post 546.

Capiche?! *g*

: ) P

Jim in Georgia said...

PJSander said...

Capiche?! *g*


The Purloined Letter?

8) Jim

Jim in Georgia said...

DocH said...
Anyone here play the PC games Myst-Riven-Exile?


You betcha! Had them all, including the spinoffs.

You're right, it's a kind of quest. It was never clear in the Myst universe whether the different ages were in different times.

8) Jim

Hammer said...

Thanks, guys...I'm soooo over it....sniffing and swimming. :)

Rita said...

I think CherrymissAwesome is Leah because of the spelling/grammer/thought process - seems classic Leah.

Post 479 confirms this for me.

I love her modest signature!


When I FIRST saw her post tonight I thought it COULDN'T be Leah because she wouldn't have seen the episode yet - but her post doesn't really have anything to do with D is D, so I'm back to saying it's her. She should just come clean and say so. Why hide?

Hammer said...

Jim in Georgia said...
PJSander said...
I think CherrymissAwesome is Leah because of the spelling/grammer/thought process - seems classic Leah.

Post 479 confirms this for me.

I love her modest signature!

8) Jim

April 10, 2009 6:14 PM

+++++++++++===
Yup, she is...LOL.

Circus Mom said...

I'm back on my computer and on TLI. Happy to be home.

PJSander said...

Were you able to follow the hint on TBI, CM?

: ) P

Tasha said...

I think I am going to change my major to Philosophy. Better yet, I should be an egyptianologist or get a degree in just Ancient History. Maybe ya'll will see me on the History Channel one day. I should be studying Trig right now and instead I am learning about the Rosetta Stone and Joseph Smith Hypocephalus. THANKS LOST! I am totally zoned out here, sorry for ranting. LOL

Lindsay said...

Hey PJ, I tried to find anything I could about Hoth, but pretty much all I saw out there was Star Wars-related...there was a Nazi general named Hoth who was convicted of war crimes, but that seems a stretch!

I think it's a play on words, since Hoth in Star Wars was supposed to be covered in ice or whatever, but obviously Some Like it Hot is the cultural reference...so if it's about opposites, what could that mean?

I just hope it's perhaps a clue to the frozen donkey wheel and we get to see what Daniel has been up to, I don't think he's left the island, so maybe we'll find out...

Rita said...

TXYorkFamily said...

I think it's a play on words, since Hoth in Star Wars was supposed to be covered in ice or whatever, but obviously Some Like it Hot is the cultural reference...so if it's about opposites, what could that mean?

I just hope it's perhaps a clue to the frozen donkey wheel and we get to see what Daniel has been up to, I don't think he's left the island, so maybe we'll find out...



This is my best guess as well. Actually, I HOPE this is correct - it's about time for us to see what Sawyer meant that Daniel is no longer with them.

Circus Mom said...

I didn't use the clue. I just got back to my own computer.

Jim in Georgia said...

"Some Like It Hoth"

I decided to look at anagrams. I pushed the title through a couple of web pages. The title contains:

hostile
shook (remember the volcano)
shoot

However the rest of the letters seemed to form garbage. I couldn't find a coherent phrase among all those syllables.

8( Jim

PJSander said...

Thanks for the link to Höðr, JiG. Interesting, and possibly a connection, but given D&C's affinity for all things Star Wars, I think we have to go with the obvious.

Maybe the hot/hoth thing has to do with the polar bears?!

: ) P

Jim in Georgia said...

PJSander said...

...

Maybe the hot/hoth thing has to do with the polar bears?!


No problem! I thought of a really neat extension of the idea that fell apart logically while I was typing. On Hoth, Luke Skywalker was riding a strange white beast that seemed to be about as friendly as a bear.

8) Jim

Circus Mom said...

Hoth led me here. Thinking about the war Widmore mentioned and Adam and Eve. Also the whisperers saying that "it's the brothers that help us.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragnar%C3%B6k

The wiki page on Ragnarök.

PJSander said...

Just watched for a third time and found out something new: the island's afterlife must include a dental plan. LOL

Tania Raymonde definitely had some dental work done between her death scene last season and the few minutes she shot under the temple this season. It is very obvious when you see the clips (in Smokey) immediately before the new stuff!

It was really hard to find photos to show what I mean because in all the photos, her mouth is closed (I think she must have been REALLY self-conscious of her teeth). I found one:

http://tinyurl.com/traymondeB4

and here is one more recent one:

http://tinyurl.com/traymondeAfter

Not anything to do with myth or folklore, but mildly amusing, if nothing else!

: ) P

Jim in Georgia said...

Circus Mom said...
Hoth led me here. Thinking about the war Widmore mentioned and Adam and Eve. Also the whisperers saying that "it's the brothers that help us.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragnar%C3%B6k

The wiki page on Ragnarök.


Wow! I did a quick scan and need to read more, but can we ask for more than Götterdämmerung?

8) Jim

Rita said...

HAPPY EASTER EVERYONE! Eat lots of Ham and Chocolate (I mean, wild boar and Apollo Bars of course!) :)

Hammer said...

You too Rita...Happy Easter to everyone else!!!

I drove the familia down to New Smynra Beach, FL. We left 45 degrees and are hangin' in 80+....woo hoo!

Jim in Georgia said...

There's an Egyptian god namd Thoth! I didn't find it; someone on the LP did.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoth

8) Jim

KateTheGreat said...

I think Hoth has GOT to be a reference to Star Wars, as the writers are such big fans. I'm expecting (and hoping for) an explanation of the Polar bears.

How does a Polar bear get from his native Arctic Ocean to a spooky South Pacific island then the Tunisian desert? The most obvious answer is Vile Vortices. I'm also hoping for a answer as to why do it in the first place. I think this episode will go back to 1977 Dharma to tackle that one. Maybe Sawyer and Kate will hook up in the Polar bear cages again for old times sake, and stumble upon some island answers? ;)

PJSander said...

KtG, one theory on how the polar bear got to Tunisia was that it was used to turn the FDW at one time. And if that is so, maybe that is why DHARMA was training it to do so.

However, if that is the case, it means DHARMA knew about the FDW. Maybe that's where the Widmore turning bad angle comes into things?

: ) P

Anonymous said...
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Rita said...

Oh DocH! How sad! I hope the rest of the day, and the Easter Baskets, made up for it!!

Jim in Georgia said...

KateTheGreat said...

...

How does a Polar bear get from his native Arctic Ocean to a spooky South Pacific island then the Tunisian desert? The most obvious answer is Vile Vortices.


The polar bears were brought to the Island by DHARMA to see if they could genetic modify them to survive in warm climates. Why? Sounds like a bunch of scientists with too much funding!

Getting to Tunisia? I said something a couple of episodes ago about one of the bears falling into the well and turning the wheel with its dying breath. I'm not sure I really believe that one, but it was the only answer I had -- and have.

(Hang in there, Doc. All things being equal, it'll be okay with the six-year old.)

8) Jim

KateTheGreat said...

Whoops! Just posted this over at WHH for some reason. Anyways...

PJ: I'm totally in agreement with you for using the Polar bears to turn the FDW, so I guess that explains the Tunisian bear. I do think that there is more to it though. Between the wacky bear cages, the shark with a Dharma logo on his tail, and the numbered bunnies, I feel like there are more experiments that we havn't seen. And why Polar bears? There are many types of animals that could be trained to turn a wheel.

I feel like we still havn't seen what in the world Dharma is actually DOING on the island. We have some great theories, but I'm looking forward to the show actually breaking it down.

KatetheGreat said...

Sorry, I think my original Polar bear comment was unclear. I totally agree with Jim and PJ about the bears turning the FDW. I think the FDW is an instrument that takes advantage of the properties of the vile vortices. Want a one way trip to Tunisia? Turn the FDW. Sorry, I didn't make that connection clear! What, you can't read my mind? :P

Jim in Georgia said...

KatetheGreat said...

...

What, you can't read my mind? :P


For me to read your mind, I would have to have one. *bg*

8) Jim

Hammer said...

DocH said...

Hammer, who's going to shovel the infield?

++++++++++++++++
You military types should know there is always a 2nd in command (crap rolls down hill...LOL).

Asst. coach does the shoveling. :)

BTW, who says you have to look for hard boiled eggs....just hide the scrambled ones. LOL.

Rita said...

You mean like playing hide and seek? They already ATE the eggs so they would have to hide themselves!

Hope everyone had a great Sunday/Easter and will be ready for another work week. :(

Circus Mom said...

Jim, Your Thoth reference led me to several interesting things.

Thoth sometimes appears as a ibis or as a goose laying a golden egg. Hurley Bird?

Thoth also leads to Hermes in Greek culture. "in Greek mythology. An Olympian god, he is also the patron of boundaries and of the travelers who cross them, of shepherds and cowherds, of thieves and road travelers,"

To the Thoth Tarot deck, which leads to "Liber AL vel Legis", or "The book of the Law."

I now want to read about 100 pages on Wiki and about 30 or 40 books, including the Quaballa.

I do like the Thoth reference and think you should mention it on TBI early on Wed.

Tasha said...

Also...we always say the eye of Horus...Isn't there also an Eye of Thoth? Just throwing that in. Haven't been able to read TBI so going to catch up now.

Hope everyone had a great Easter. Funny about the egg thing. Our eggs were so pretty this year we only hid plastic ones. WHen I was a kid all we ever did was dye them. Ours now have glitter and hearts and just about everything on them. Nobody wanted to crack the eggs with their names on it. Then when they did they all complained about glitter all over the eggs. It was a great day LOL.

Jim in Georgia said...

Circus Mom said...

Jim,

...

I do like the Thoth reference and think you should mention it on TBI early on Wed.


I will try to remember to do that. Sounds like fun!

8) Jim

PJSander said...

All the Thoth stuff is interesting indeed. I can't wait to find out what this episode will be about, because they are going to have a hard time topping DiD.

So I think that Ben was lying when he said DiD to Sun. As far as I am concerned, he was doing his best Henry Gale impersonation when he was talking to Caesar, and his next best when he was talking to Sun about Locke's reincarnation. I mean it was HIS van that said Canton Ranier, right?

: ) P

Jim in Georgia said...

PJSander said...

...Ben was lying...

: ) P
Do we have any documented instances of Ben telling the truth? Even one?

8) Jim

ps: Tarzan's back and I think he's grouchy about something.

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