I think the title is fairly self-explanatory in this case. The only thing that remains to be seen in this (likely) Locke-centric episode, is if he did indeed DIE and if so, by what cause, and for how long?
: ) P
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178 comments:
Here we go - everybody ready??!!
You mean this title only as one meaning?
I find it interesting that you say if he indeed died and FOR HOW LONG? It's the FOR HOW LONG part that gets me.
Anyone have any guesses as to WHEN Locke returned to the real world? I assume it wasn't too long before his death. Maybe a month or 2.
Since there is only one meaning for the title, I thought this was interesting....especially his 'odd' request:
Born: 15 February 1748
Birthplace: London, England
Died: 6 June 1832
Best Known As: The father of Utilitarianism
Jeremy Bentham was a founder of Utilitarianism -- simply put, the philosophy that a moral act is one which produces the greatest happiness for the greatest number of people. He outlined this theory in his 1789 work, Introduction to the Principles of Morals and Legislation. Bentham's outlook made him a vocal critic of many legal and political institutions, and he was considered quite radical for his day. (He was particularly critical of Sir William Blackstone, author of Blackstone's Commentaries and the most famous English legal mind of that era.)
Bentham also is known for an odd request in his will: he ordered that his remains be preserved and kept in a box, to be displayed on occasion to friends and followers. This "auto-icon," duly dressed in Bentham's own clothes, is kept in a special cabinet at University College London to this day.
Bentham strongly influenced the philosopher John Stuart Mill, who wrote the 1861 book Utilitarianism... Bentham entered Queen's College, Oxford at age 12 and graduated in 1764.
Maybe it should be called "The Death and Life of Jeremy Bentham", or "The Life and Death and Life of Jeremy Bentham", in light of the whole reincarnation idea.
So Hammer, the original Bentham's philosophy was that if more people are happy about it, than are not happy about it, then the act is therefore moral? Yikes! That would open a can of worms for sure. But it does sound like our John Locke.
I was thinking life+death+life too Rita. But that title would have to be 'Life and Death and Life of John Locke' since Bentham is still dead.....sort of.
haha, yeah...except it's called the Life And Death of Jeremy Bentham, not the Life And Death Of John Locke, so we can be pretty sure we're going to get the story from the turning of the FDW to his 'suicide' or maybe his resurrection...;)
I'm ready! I have to tell you how MUCH I am loving that LOST is back on Wednesdays. It makes the week seem so much shorter!
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I agree with that ESB, Bentham not Locke. I am not oonvinced yet as to the whole reincarnation thing, red herring.
Just to clear the air, I DON'T think it's about Locke's whole life...it was just a talking point.
haha, yeah i'm stoked too PJ...gonna re-watch the second half of 316 today on lunch (couldn't get through it all yesterday) and then count the minutes till it's time to go home...i also love that it's back on Wednesdays too...;)
Bad Robot!!!
Agreed Hammer. I don't think it's about Locke's life either. I think it is about Bentham's life. The part of Locke's life after he turned the FDW. Kind of like Michael's episode last year, Meet Kevin Johnson.
ESB, your foil has found it's mark on TBI....good stuff!!!!
thanks Hammer..just a slow day at work so i actually have time to think before i type, haha ;)
enjoy the show you all...;)
BAD ROBOT!
April fool gag. I don't know why this popped into my head, but I was just thinking that if we use a DWY classification as why we know something...we have to make up a classification so that no one else will wonder why they didn't get the info if we use a 'real' one.
So Caesar and the "marshal" and Locke on the island, three mysteries solved in the first fifteen seconds!
Whoo hoo!
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Crash again on TBI.
Yep.
I think Ben had to kill Locke, committing suicide would prevent him from being a leader.
Wow. Okay.
I didn't find that episode as SATISFYING as last week's, even though we got lots of answers (and of course, more questions).
But... Widmore REMEMBERED something that happened in "photoshop" mode... or at least pretends he did.
Hmmm.
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Yeah PJ....I'm holding on to that encyclopedia theory of yours. :)
I rewatched the scene where Ceasar and marshall walked next the plane...they were walking down a 'rocky' road....Lapidus missed the runway by a couple of feet. :)
L4E, on TBI, I wasn't being snarky....I was begging the writers for the logic. Not saying please to you. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Seriously little islanders....we know each other enough now that we are just trying to get points across....right? We seem to have an apology moment every week. This group means no harm to each other...right?
Also, L4E, I think the plane didn't land in Guam because it hit the vile vortex that is near Guam. They were on a patch to Guam to hit the vortex that put the plane back on the island.
NP Hammer. I read it fast and responded even faster. And you are right we should know each other well enough and I like to think I do. Sometimes, blogs, emails, etc. look one way and I am easily confused. Hard to judge feelings behind them sometimes.
I, like you PJ, was not really impressed with this episode, it actually seemed liked it dragged along.
Def. not spectacular this week. But I liked it for info sake. It gets the story moved along. We are now past the whole O6, JB thing and now we can see why all this happened.
Here's one weird thing... and of course I will have to go back and look again, but I thought that I saw Alpert standing on the beach when Ilana took Caesar to look at the "man in the suit who was standing in the water." I thought we were looking over Alpert's shoulder toward the back of Locke.
FWIW, I didn't read your comment as snarky, Hammer. More like, oh please please let there be some logic we can count on!
But here is another question, who WAS the woman that "the pilot" took off with? And... was "the pilot" really Lapidus? There would have been a co-pilot on the plane, right? Maybe Lapidus time jumped with the O5? Maybe the co-pilot was a Widmore plant?
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I have had trouble finding TBI tonight, but have managed to get in every so often.
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TBI is very hit or miss. Maybe Tarzan go down well? Put wheel on axis? Bonzo wait longer...see if any good stuff on TBI.
Maybe, it helps the 'group' theory since he left the island with them. I think they hinted today that eventually everyone who left HAS to come back.
Does that mean WAAAAAAAALT has to return at some point?
I think so L4E, I think it was either Abaddon that laid that hint on us. He asked Locke why he wasn't recruiting Walt and followed up Lockes answer with another hint.
I agree and as I have said before, if Walt weren't supposed to come back, we wouldn't keep seeing him!
Speaking of which, "taller" Walt really is! He's grown another three inches since filming the scene with Hurley last year.
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DocH said: To most civilians, a pilot is a pilot, but Ilana was law enforcement - maybe a US Marshall - someone that would know the difference between 3 & 4 stripers.
While I agree that a US Marshal probably WOULD have known the difference, she may not have taken much of a look at his stripes while he was off like a jackrabbit after the crash.
As to the enhanced episode, I missed the first fifteen minutes, but I agree that there was some clarification - but I don't remember either! I don't think is was much to LOSTaholics like us, but probably very significant to the casual fan.
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FWIW:
The Life mag had this at the top: Color Pictures of Hydrogen Test
Dave Beck....goons emerges as labor leader.
Then as he flips through there is a picture of Creature from the black lagoon carrying a woman.
Then a Hanes underwear ad.
The paper he was looking at had circle with line running between them....some lines said Real Time, some said Space Time and some said Imaginary Time. There was also an Event A and and Event B referenced.
How the frack is this a compliment?
duke
Comment 182, posted 11 minutes ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
duke wrote:
You seem smarter than that.
Wow…..
That was a compliment or it was meant to be anyway. No offense intended.
It's one of those back-handed compliments. Is duke new this year on TBI?
Not really sure why they wouldn't have time to build the runway. We do not know what year it is on the island when Airja airways crashed.
Is it present time ( 2007 to them )? Are O6ers left in around new years 2005. We did not see the "others" skipping with our LOSTies for some reason unaware to us yet. Is it reasonable to think that the "others" lived a normal 3 years on the island before 316 crashed? Or am I way off?
I got your back, Hammer. Read post 194 on TBI.
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I don't have the energy to debate him on this one. He is assuming that only Sawyer and Kate worked on the runway for two days. I am assuming they were forced to 'help' the Others build it.
Thanks PJ. Whew, the confines of the big kids table......:)
I don't have a problem with people runway deal different than me...but I am using facts to support it, maybe using them incorrectly...but facts nonetheless.
Well this is one of the reasons why TBI is often frustrating. When we little islanders have a theory, we say, "I think..." or "I believe..." or "Perhaps..." or "Maybe..." On TBI, many people write as if they have the FACTS, which of course, we know they don't. We are ALL just speculating, and there is no rule that says we have to settle anything! Argh!
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I know....I was told I HAVE to let go of a theory because duke thinks it's not so.
Doc just doesn't agree with me, respectfully.
Doc, I literally belly laughed when Locke was looking at TBI from the Hydra. My daughter asked what I was laughing at...I said they landed on the small island...she said "So?".
Lucky kid...no addiction.
Hey Doc, wanted to do this here.
I think that after reading the lostpedia version of the runway, it's safe say the the runway was not finished and is why the plane is lying next to it.
JMO.
A side by side of the runway and the scene from last night would be awesome....if anyone knows how to do that. :)
I havn't read TBI yet as I have been locked out until a minute ago. Have some thoughts to share.
Widmore said Ben tricked him off the island but when he said I was exilied by HIM I thought he meant Jacob or Christion, not Ben. Locke said "Ben wasn't there when I left." Ben also turned the wheele the first time so Locke could stay.
This epi lead us to Widmore good, Ben bad but I think we were being manipulated.
My first thought when I watched last night was that many people wouldn't like this episode. At face level it appears to answer questions for the general viewer and have little for the LAA's like us. I thought that was misleading. I watched again this morning. I think this epi bears watchin several times. Everything changed.
i actually liked last nights episode quite a bit...yeah, a little on the slow side but i liked the extended screen time for Widmore and Abaddon (sp?)...thought it was very interesting that we got to see Widmore as more of a 'real person' while Ben's been running around doing all the ugly dirty rat stuff he always does...
also, it occurred to me last night that maybe Ben was just using the O6 to get back on the island...he knew the only way he could back to island was to be on the same plane...he is no longer special and that is the only way he can get back, that's why he crashed while Jack, Hurley and Kate flashed...;)
i dunno, it's confusing (on purpose i'm sure) as to who are the 'heroes' and who are the 'villains', but i really think when it's all said and done that Ben might end up being the one true bad guy...thoughts?
PJ, I think Widmore remembers meeting Locke in 1952 because it happened to Locke in 3004 and he mentions it in 2007. Still fits with the photoshop theory.
Widmore is 72 years old now. I think there is a reason we don't know when Desmond and Penny were born or how old they are.
Circus Mom said...
PJ, I think Widmore remembers meeting Locke in 1952 because it happened to Locke in 3004 and he mentions it in 2007. Still fits with the photoshop theory.
February 26, 2009 1:05 PM
+++++++++++
Agree.....still. :)
It suddely became inportant for me to find out why Des has three brothers. Something trigered it on TBI. I found this,
For example, Friedman claims that in Genesis four brothers are in contention for the succession to the blessing of Jacob: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, and Judah, and the blessing falls to the youngest of the four, Judah.
in my search. Des would be Reubin, the eldist.
Here is where I found it.
http://www.amazon.com/review/RMODRUO67ZIYZ
CM said: I think Widmore remembers meeting Locke in 1952 because it happened to Locke in 3004 and he mentions it in 2007. Still fits with the photoshop theory.
Brilliant! Thank you. The way he said is misleading, but not lying. I love it. You should put that on TBI as well. It was my comment 106 over there.
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Thank you very much Doc. Cannon or not...it seals the deal in MY HEAD.
I very much agree that it's not realistic...just what they wanted us to believe was going on....
DocH said: Sayid told John after John started travelling for Widmore, that he had worked for Ben for 2 years (starting ~Oct 05).
Sayid works for Ben for two years and then runs off to South America for a while (before returning to LA to rescue Hurley). If that two years STARTED in October 05, that would put him done with Ben in October 07. I don't follow where the time doesn't work.
Please help me understand what you mean!
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FWIW, Hammer, I think that the two photos next to each other look like they really do uphold your theory.
I can't speak to the terrain and size of the little island, so I have nothing to add to DocH's stance on "landability" there. Is it POSSIBLE that the plane did a "miracle" water landing while AIMING for the runway and just "finished" the landing on next to the runway? I don't know!
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DocH said: a water landing is a much safer way to safe everyone's life (and keep the plane intact) than plunking it down in the jungle
I agree that a water landing ought to be safer than a jungle landing, but was the Sully landing in the Hudson not the first water landing without fatalities in history? I seem to remember hearing that.
I also remember from the Season 4 extras, that no plane has successfully made a water landing. I took that to mean that no one had ever survived. But that was a fictional piece, and I have no idea if that statement was based on fact.
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I guess I am just sorely misunderstood. A realistic landing is not the point. The point I am making is that the show was hinting at this landing for 3 episodes by telling us about a runway being built. Realistic or not.
I don't think it would work in the real world...I just believe the story we are being told...runway being built on Hydra, plane sitting next to said runway on Hydra.
hmm, it may not matter at all if the pilot could see the clearing...the point may be that someone already knew the plane was going to crash there, so they made a clearing in that spot to make a crash-landing 'easier'...haha, then again, who knows...;)
DocH said: Sayid was in Santo Domingo, DR, not South America ---about 270 miles East of Cuba .
You are right, they did specify Dominican Republic. I was thinking Santo Domingo in Ecuador!
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DocH said: Numbers are off a bit. Locke marched into time camp to see Alpert in '54. Widmore wanted to shoot him. Locke learned his name and grinned. OA6 were rescued in early were rescued in early '05. All the OA6 stuff says 3 years later, which would be '08, but, it is probably late in '07 when Widmore tells John talk about their '54 meeting.
Okay, so please explain this part then! LOL. I still don't get where the discrepancy is!
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"The argument suggesting it is a runway is circumstantial, and based on hearsay."
Which makes it a theory...and a damn good one until something else lands there. :)
I think Frank has the manifest and he knows more than he is telling. He accepts everything too easily and the other three of his team all seem to have been on the island before.
I think Frank has the manifest and he knows more than he is telling. He accepts everything too easily and the other three of his team all seem to have been on the island before.
I think you may be onto something there CM.
I think you may be onto something there CM.
LOL :)
I suppose you are correct Doc. Presented as theory or fact, many of you folks just don't think the runway scenes (in 3 episodes) were relevant.
FWIW, (then I am shutting up about this...for real this time) I presented it as a theory on the past threads....then badabing...there is the plane on the small island...where they were building a 'runway'. I saw it as tying up the 'why are they building a runway' question.
Flyboy is making my head hurt. Some of what he is saying makes sense but the rest.....
I am at post 222 on TBI
Got it, DocH, thank you!
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CM said (twice): I think Frank has the manifest and he knows more than he is telling. He accepts everything too easily and the other three of his team all seem to have been on the island before.
I agree that you are on to something!
FYI, I laughed OUT LOUD (for real, not just an expression) when I read your reply, Hammer. And I laughed out loud AGAIN when I read through the replies a second time.
My stomach actually hurts from laughing. Thank you, I needed a chuckle!
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Doc, 3004 was a typo but I think it was late 2004. Des called Penny on Dec 24th and is was soon after when Ben turned the wheel.
The O^ were rescued in early 2005 after being on Penny's boat for some length of time.
1952 was a error.
Got to 264 on TBI and checked. Now there are 389 comments. UGH.
;<(
Okay, so I have lots of fun discussing things that make sense. But a post on TBI was the "last straw" in the "let's make up crazy theories and then try to justify them" arena. Truth is that there was a bit of sense, but I reacted. Here is my post there (for those of you who stay on TLI only):
Here’s the thing… we just DON’T KNOW! For all we know, there is a secret DHARMA runway bridge that comes up out of the water when a plane approaches from the right direction and is due to fly on the right heading through the “window” at the right time. This special secret bridge then goes back down under the water after the plane lands safely. If Frank “knows” more than he say he does, he might have been LOOKING for it!
Sound ridiculous? So do smoke monsters, polar bears in the jungle, time traveling, consciousness traveling, taller “ghost” Walt, whisperers, Others, not one but possibly two secret societies of people who are outwardly trying to better the world but may have nefarious gains in mind, a slave ship in the middle of the jungle, a button that requires being pushed once every 108 minutes, two people from two different continents, who share not only a secret father but the EXACT same plane ride, a set of six numbers that show up in three different places in the same man’s life, and fifty odd people who rarely use the bathroom, never talk about crazy things that happen to them, never fight over the last pair of sunglasses, never shave any parts of their body and never got sunburned over the course of more than 100 days.
While I enjoy disecting plot lines and comparing theories, I think we have to accept that there comes a point when we have to suspend belief for some of the ideas. Because when it gets right down to it, I don’t know that ANYONE should have survived the O815 crash in the FIRST place!
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haha...hey PJ, sorry if any of my posts are adding to your frustration but i love your post...bravo! ;)
PJSander said ... While I enjoy disecting plot lines and comparing theories, I think we have to accept that there comes a point when we have to suspend belief for some of the ideas. Because when it gets right down to it, I don’t know that ANYONE should have survived the O815 crash in the FIRST place!
Well said PJ! Here Here!
ESB said: hey PJ, sorry if any of my posts are adding to your frustration but i love your post
No worries, ESB! None at all.
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What? I leave for 6 hours and there are 92 posts on here and 400 on TBI.:) I got a lot of reading to do after basketball.
Frustated at work and got snarky with duke. Oh well.
I'm laughing at your comment CM...but not commenting myself....cause I made a promise here on TLI. :)
Doc @ Tarzan.....I have confidence in you. It's funny shizzle.
Holy crap...I just came up with the April fool gag....it will crush duke....confirm that they built a r-- --y (I promised I wouldn't say it again).
LMAO!!!
I can't take it...peeing my pants...he just 'added' a second thought LMAO to an insulting comment!!!
Good one Doc.
Okay, so I have been mulling over the April Fool's idea... tell me what you think:
So the weekend before April 1st, when the "regular talk" of the previous week's episode has died down, one of us (for simplicity's sake, I will say that I do it, but it doesn't matter who) goes to the big island and says, "Hey guys, I know some of you hang around other blogs, too. Has anyone mentioned getting a special email from DWY?"
Then one of you (Miss Kim maybe) can say you haven't heard anything, and ask why. Miss Kim can go to the website and say it is still down or whatever. (Let's hope D&C don't resurrect it as their own special April Fool's Trick! LOL)
I will reply that I got an email but I am wondering if it is just my husband playing a trick on me because he knows I am such a big fan.
Then someone else (Hammer maybe) can say he got one too! Then DocH can chime in, and the rest of you, over the course of the rest of the weekend. Then Miss Kim can "check her spam" and FIND her email! (EVERYONE will start checking their spam! LOL)
Then we can start talking about the extra special status blah blah blah and how we were directed to a special podcast and then talk about the scene we got to see or whatever.
How does that sound?
If it is going REALLY well, we could even push the whole thing over the top and say that one of us got a phone call from Kris White (the podcast guy) or even Damon or Carlton! We could hint that they read the blog and think we are really close on our theories (maybe the RUNWAY theory or whatever is the thorn in the side of the group that week! LOL). It would be SO sweet.
Thoughts?
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Great post on TBI, PJ ( #423 ). I almost replied to hastily, again. We are thinking the same on that subject.:)
PJ:
Okay, so I have been mulling over the April Fool's idea... tell me what you think:
I am ready for any joke on TBI. I was all down with the HALL MONITOR idea, but that didn't seem to work. I think we may need to have a "practice" joke first, so we are ALL on the same page. I would love to hear youe opinions.:)
P.S. I would have also like to have been the actual HALL MONITOR. My mother was a teacher and father a marine, I was born for it.
I like it PJ...I'm in.
L4E, can you explain this to me....seriouly I'm not sure what you are saying:
++
Best “theory” yet, what ever that means.:)
I see a lot of posters saying “we assume this” and “this had to happen”…it sounds like the latest is “Widmore said this, so it MUST be true.”
Slim chance, Hammer, how about NO chance. He was LEADER of the island, and therefore, by nature, Widmore has lied.
Any LEADER has to protect his people, and their beliefs. JMO.
++
It sounds (in my head) like you are saying that you can't say Widmore was a leader just because he said so, then you are saying he was definatly leader???
Doc wrote:
"I recognize it as theory, now that you are using that term "theory". You may have had more success on the TBI if you had consistently associated 'Theory' with 'Runway'.
(alot of what was said over there came-off as reciting "fact", not theory)"
I am going to use the crap out of IMO over there... LOL.
I agree it wouldn't be a bad idea to "practice" our April Fools joke. Next Wednesday, before I put up the La Fleur thread, I will put up a Ben Cavier thread. We can use that thread to practice, and by the time the last week of March is upon us, it will be sufficiently buried that someone wouldn't likely happen across it.
Sound good?
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Yes, it was a little incoherent Hammer. My birthday party last night and that always equals one too many budwieser's.:)
First, I wasn't knocking you saying it was your best theory yet.
I completely agree that Widmore was the leader but I do not believe we can take EVERYTHING he says as proof, which some posters on TBI are using as evidence for their theories. I know we need something to connect the dots, but I am not sure if the truth is going to come from Widmore.
Now, where is that tylenol.:)
just want to say that if there ever is an actual hall monitor, i'd vote for L4E...;)
Several thoughts. I am sill 100 comments behind on TBI so let me know what isn't there yet and I will copy over.
Everyone on TBI seems to be saying that Widmore ran the island for 30 years, then searched for it for 20. That he wasn't in charge in 54 and that Penny was probably born there. The times don't add up. Widmore didn't say he ran the island for 30 years, he said he was their leader and WE protected the island for 30 years. So, when did they stop protection the island? When Dharma started? That would mean they started protecting the island in the 30's.
Ben Could have been the leader of the others long before the purge. People are assuming he took over then but I think it was much sooner. I think Widmore was gone a while before the burge also.
I have created a time line chart where I am putting in all possible information and noting what we know and what we think we know differently. It is a excell file and I don't know how to share it. Any ideas in this? I could use your input.
I'm in for the joke, and for the practice - sounds like fun! Just let me know what to do/say whatever, and I'm there.
TBI DOES seem to need a hallmonitor - I vote for L4E too.
Now, if I can just get through the rest of the posts over there, I can throw out a few ideas. Darn job, I don't have as much time as I would like!
Back to Frank. I really beleive Sun is in the 70's so who is with Frank? Hawking, Penny, Cindy, Rachel, Sarah, Carol, Diane, Cassidy or someone new?
Frank has the manifest, he memorized the manifest from 815. He was excited to find out Juliette wasn't on 815 and called her a naitive (I beleive).
Was Frank on the island before? Was Frank banned from flying 815 because he was a drunk or did he become a drunk because he was banned.
Frank is the only person from the Freighter team to survive as far as we know.
Going to work now. Hope to have answere when I check back in. TBI island will have to wait.
Happy Birthday L4E!
L4E would make a great monitor....but only if he can get authority from the blog.
Much like real life, if there is no bite to your bark....you'll just get mocked and incite more crap. You need to be able to remove offensive posts, etc.
does anyone else think it's a little humorous that there have been discussions on TBI about how long it would take Jack to grow his beard, when the whole time he was on the island he never had more than some serious stubble? don't know why but that tickles me...;)
yeah, happy b-day L4E!
Funny L4E!!! Thanks for the clarification and happy bday.
We have a rule on our FFL. NO DRINKING AND POSTING!!
LOL.
Yeah ESB, I've been guilty of debating non issues....but the beard thing is silly....like all of the "in real life" debates.
haha, well, i NEVER debate non-issues...;)
yeah, right!
H A P P Y
B I R T H D A Y
L O S T 4 E V E R !
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Thanks ALL for the birthday wishes.:)
You got me DocH, you hit the nail with your Hammer right on the head. I usually try not to blog when in an intoxicated state.
Jeremy Bentham, really? I only have 4 toes also but am not a sphinx.
I love this blog.....period.
ditto...;)
mee three!
Haha Circus Mom! I was about ready to say "me three!" but refreshed first and you beat me to it! So I guess it's "me four!" :)
Me five! I guess that Jacob was watching out over us and it was fate that Will had to move the island and we all swam here.
*bg*
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Me 6...:)
I need to clarify that my birthday lasts a weekend.
Oh DocH, yes! That all makes lots and lots of sense! Excellent.
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Just read about Ana Lucia on Lostpedia and it is a good reminder that things there arn't necessarly true. It says she went "on the run in Australia."
Funny, DocH! I hadn't seen it yet so thanks. :)
Just had a great laugh. Watching a horrible movie called Copperhead (2008) on SciFi. They are about to lock the women and children in the bank vault to protect them from the swarm of snakes. As they head to the bank the bank manager says, "The combination is 15-16-23-42."
Just for extra laughs, when I checked IMDB I read the goofs which said,
When the cowboys go into the barn and discover all the horses are dead (killed by the snakes) they hear a commotion in the saloon and all run back out into the street. When they leave, a "dead" horse lifts its head up and looks around,
Lost is everywhere.
OMG, this post epitimizes TBI and every debate ever done on it...AND was masterfully condensed...bravo PJ.
=========
PJSander
Comment 477, posted 1 day, 1 hour ago - Quote and reply
gmta leah wrote:
The 06 were on the island 108 days .yes?
Had three years passed since they crashed (off island)?
------------
No. See post 321 which directly refutes post 317 upon which your post 471 is based. There is an inherent danger in basing theories upon information which comes from other theories upon which there is no factual basis. (In this case, “factual” means canon from LOST and not, in fact, “fact” since this is, in fact, a fictional show.)
LOL.
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Thanks, Hammer. *blushing*
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I agree PJ, I laughed my head off over your VERY clever responce! Not much to say after THAT!! Good job :)
Greetings,
I am a frustrated Lostpedian looking for theories with logic behind them. DocH said I might find some solace here!
I thought I might add a little to explain my "Lostpedia frustration." I could just paste all the email that DocH and I have being exchanging, but that would drive all of you to distraction.
There is a "new" group of very nasty "editors" at the LP; I won't list names.
The willingness to list as canon things that characters say confounds me. "Juliet said it was a runway!" So? Now she's an aviation expert? Btw, which aliens were coming?
Citing talk pages as authority to make changes to record (episode, character) pages.
SYSOPS asleep at the switch.
Despite all that, I'll probably keep editing.
Hi Jim. We are all Lostaholics here on the little island. I have not been big into Lostpedia but I have noticed some misinformation as of late that had me frustrated too.
Welcome.
Hello J in G. For the most part you will find solace here. Although, I am guilty of using Juliet's runway comment as PART of a theory. I have added together clues(at least I think they are clues) to come to a theory.
I undertand your frustration, but the writers do use character's word to drop hints...you can't just tell me that since Juliet isn't an expert in runways that her comments are automatically useless....can you?
Oh and please keep editing....we do need the accurate stuff. :)
Charlotte had of course been on the Island before, and my theory on how she knows Korean is that Jin taught it to her in the 70’s when he became a DHARMA worker and Charlotte was little.
The above is from a very longwinded entry by Lostjunkie on TBI. It makes so much sense.
CM, it's probabally going to end up being that type of time travel. I still have trouble with whole theory that some people have knowledge of an event before the time travel happened and others involved in that knowledge don't have said knowledge because they haven't time travelled yet.
Her learning Korean and speaking it before Jin time travelled is my hang up.
No need to repeat the 'her timeline/his timeline' theory....please. :)
Also Jim...I should mention that I do not edit LP. I do use it as a ref. very often, but I try to re-watch the episodes to make sure I am using correct info.
I also fully undertand the frustration of the missing logic in the r-- --ay theory. Doc has made it clear that it isn't long enough for the plane. I am just a boob that thinks that weather it is realistic or not...it's what they wanted us to believe. LOL.
Hammer, I am having the same problem with justifying when and why people remember what has/will happen. Waiting for the answer.
I can only say here that perhaps Charlotte remembers how to speak Korean but dosn't remember who taught her. Assuming it was Jin of course. :)
Hi Jim and Welcome. Any friend of DocH's is a friend of mine.:)
I completely agree with you and the relation of canon to what certain characters say. The latest seems to be what Widmore told Locke in the previous episode. How in the hell do we believe anything this guy says? Wasn't he gonna kill everyone on the island? A lot of "theories" on TBI ( The Big Island, AKA lostblog.net ) this week have been based on what Widmore said. I, myself, need a little more evidence for factual knowledge than anything Widmore or Ben say.
CM:
The above is from a very longwinded entry by Lostjunkie on TBI. It makes so much sense.
LOL. Too-longwinded although she/he had some valid observations, that being one of them. I just hope she/he doesn't write a book everytime. Short and sweet works just as well.
Guess I proved that I'm boob....
weather instead of whether....lol.
I was up late watching the WB and S3E1 was on last night. They were at the Hydra station which wasn't too far from where they were bulding the "runway". In last weeks episode, it has been confirmed that Caeser was in the Hydra station, which appeared to be near the beach. If Hydra=near beach, and Hydra=near runway, then beach=near runway.
Maybe Juliet was wrong though and they weren't building a runway, how about a landing strip?:)
I CHOOSE to believe that 'theory' L4E....:)
Late 1970's"Orientation" Unknown date
Something happens to Helen that leads to her being angry for the next 20 years, until she meets John Locke.
The above is from Lostpedia. Since we just saw Helen's grave, and the losties are in the 70's I think Helen will be on the island working for Dharma. Perhaps she is Penny's mother?
Welcome to the little island, Jim in Georgia!
While I agree that we can't necessarily take what a character says at face value (and with some characters, we would be foolhardy to take ANYTHING they say at face value), I do believe that there is no harm in developing theories BASED on what characters say. Said theories cannot be PROVEN but are harmless to discuss. But as you say, are not FACT. (Again, in this case, fact as it relates to LOST - ie Canon - as opposed to fact in the real world! LOL)
: ) P
Circus Mom said: The above is from Lostpedia. Since we just saw Helen's grave, and the losties are in the 70's I think Helen will be on the island working for Dharma. Perhaps she is Penny's mother?
Or Annie's.
Or Charlotte's.
Hmmm.
Like it, CM!
: ) P
Hmmm. Maybe that was why Helen was so wrapped up in Locke forgetting about his father... because he was SUPPOSED to be finding his destiny on the island and she was supposed to be directing him to it?
: ) P
First, thanks for the pleasant greetings from all.
hammer wrote:
you can't just tell me that since Juliet isn't an expert in runways that her comments are automatically useless....can you?
Well, I guess I can...never mind. (grin)
No, I don't reject statements by characters as being canon in toto, but it all has to be in perspective.
From memory:
J: It's a runway.
Sawyer/Kate: For what?
J:For aliens (smirks) They don't tell me everything.
Long before someone pointed out Juliet's statement I was arguing that Kate and Sawyer were simply being degraded. Raise your hand if you don't think Danny Picket was a sadistic SOB LOL!
Welcome to the Little Island Jim in Georgia!
The natives are getting restless again on TBI. Every now and then people start getting testy about "having the read all the posts". Nice come-back PJ! No one HAS to read them! I like to read them all, even the longgggg winded newbie posters - you never know when you might be able to glean something useful, or spark an idea.
DocH, I still wonder whether or not ANYONE could have SEEN the island from the air, in order to purposely land (on an invisable island). As I said on TBI, it is more likely that the pilot expected a water crash landing in the middle of the ocean, and instead landed on the island, with or without a "r-- --y".
They could see the runway because of the landing lights. What? Oh. Never mind.
Sorry, but there's another post at LP justifying "landing facilities." If there really is a runway, DocH and I are gonna have to hide for a month!
Jeez guys, it was just a theory supported by clues (in my mind). The reason why I think they are clues is because GENERALLY on Lost, conversations are planted for later use. I feel that the writers had Sawyer ask and Juliette answer for a REASON, not just light conversation. I feel it is not just chance that the writers chose the Hydra for the 'landing'...and I certainly don't think the use of the words 'run way' were meant to be thought of as something you find at LAX. I feel is was a vague reference to let us know that a plane would be landing in that spot....oh BTW...one did (IMO).
BTW, does Jim know about our planned prank? His chiming in would be a great facilitator.
Jim? Prank? Hmmm...
DocH, your mention of Honolulu is the first I can remember seeing. I don't think the city was mentioned anywhere at LP. Do we know that Flight 316 didn't cross into darkness before reaching Hawaii?
Jim-
The folks here on TLI are planning an April fool's gag on TBI. Something to the effect of pretending that we got special info from DWY to confirm a false theory?
Anyway, maybe PJ and explain it beter.
Anyway, maybe PJ and explain it beter.
Yikes...maybe she can spell it better too. :)
JiG,
We're working up towards an April Fool's Day prank on TBI. Because the first is a Wednesday, we'll start the prank a couple of days before and then say April Fools sometime on the Wednesday.
We're going to discuss and "practice" on a thread which I will post early tomorrow morning, Ben F. Cavier (which is an anagram of Cabin Fever).
More details will be found in the comments there.
: ) P
I figured it out Hammer. They might be building the runway for 316 to TAKE OFF and not land. :)
Tarzan strikes again. LOL
There was a rumor that they were going to start landing 737s at our local county airport. The airport manager replied that they may land one, but would have to truck it off in pieces. Ouch!
DocH, we need a LOT more Tarzan! Funny :)
WTG Miss Kim! WTG Lins!
: ) P
Man come from Fringe blog.
Carry peaches.
Keep make laugh at r-- --y.
No use :)
What give?
Me no Tarzan, just steal joke.
yeah me! and yeah miss kim! woo hoo!
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