After far too long a wait, LOST returns tonight with the final season premiere entitled LA X. The anticipation has been growing and I am almost to a point where I do not believe it could POSSIBLY meet expectations. There are fifteen episodes, totaling eighteen hours (not including clip shows and recaps) until the end of the LOST era.
Among the many questions that fans want answered...
... who is Ilana and how does she relate to Richard / Ricardus?
... when and how will "dead" characters return?
... is Eloise Hawking biologically related to Daniel Faraday?
... will Sun be reunited with Jin?
... will Claire be reunited with Aaron?
... who is MIB?
... what is next for Kate?
... did Juliet die?
... will Jack find his destiny?
... will Sawyer spend the first six episodes shirtless again?
Make a list of the questions YOU want answered in the next eighteen hours and post them as a comment!
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196 comments:
Questions from my hubby:
How did a polar bear skeleton end up in Tunisia and how did the polar bears survive in the jungle?
Why is Charles Widmore obsessed with the island?
How does the smoke monster work? Who controls it? Does it take forms of other people? Is it related to MIB? And why does it sound like the receipt machine from a NYC cab?
How is MIB related to Jacob? To Richard?
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What in the H E double hockey sticks is the source of the whispers?!
I want to know who's skeletons they find in the cave? Is it really Adam and Eve?
Why can't Charles kill Ben?
What rule was broken when Alex was killed?
Was any of this answered and I am having a brain fart?
...And where is the big island? I haven't decided whether or not to go there, but wanted to check it out - couldn't find it. :( Weird! Maybe Nick gave up on it after the nonsense of last year.
But hey, it's all good because IN ONE - ONE! - MORE HOUR, WE GET THREE WHOLE HOURS OF LOST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have stopped by, not sure how much I will post there, but here is the link to TBI:
http://www.lostblog.net/lost/tv/show/lost-the-final-season-%E2%80%9Cla-x%E2%80%9D/comment-page-1#comment-369887
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What's the deal with the numbers people?
Did everything that happened really happen?
Can destiny be changed?
Can't wait....can't wait....can't wait.....
I want to know everything but lets start with,
Why did Jack, Kate and Hurley travel to 1977 and Frank, Ben and Sun stay in 2007.
Why did Jacob make it so Richard dosn't age, and did he do that to MIB also?
Is Christian Sheppard really himself or is he "ocupied" like Lock is now. Who is/was ocupying him, is it also MIB. Does he change bodies regularly?
How can Sun travel to Jin. CS said she had a long journey.
What is the significants of Vincent.
What is in Hurley's guitar case and why did Jacob give it to him.
Why don't the rules apply to Desmond.
Why can't they have babies.
Who really wrote "Jacobs List" as Jack and Kate wern't on it and Locke was. Jacob brought Jack, Kate and Hurley et al to the island and he brought Ilana to the island to be his army. Are those on the list really MIB's army who Richard was tricked into accepting.
OK, I'ss stop now. Welcome back everyone!!!
Thanks PJ.
Ready!
Maybe, Doc!
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I tell you JULIET IS ALIVE!
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Time for Suchi and to sign off. My Lost dosn't start for 1 1/2 more hours.
Too many 'mercials!
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Yikes. Charrrrrrrlllllliiiieeeeeeee!
Whoa!! Locke=Smokey!! And the ash!!
And now she's dead. Again. Man that was awful.
Soooooo......parallel universes? The plane crashed, AND it didn't? I'm confused!!
Maybe Juliette goes with Sayeed to the temple.
My u-verse went out at the last scene with Sawyer and them!! Someone said she died? OMG
Well that answers the question about the guitar case :)
And Juliet does not go to the temple. Hmmmmmmm.
Ummmmmm. I do better pretend CPR on the Red Cross dummy. Didn't seem like Jack was trying too hard...
Awww...Zach and Emma are OK after all...still doesn't make much sense though
It's like watching 3 or 4 different shows all at the same time LOL. I thought I thought I was confused following 2 time lines.
Richard in chains...like perhaps on the Black Rock?
Okay, starting with the ending... did Jacob inhabit Sayid's body?
Richard in chains on the Black Rock, GREAT idea, Lins!
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@ LINS: That was my first thought too - Richard came over on the Black Rock.
@ PJ: When Sayeed sat up, I immediately thought the same - that he was Jacob. What a way to end the episode!
So...John is really dead right? THis is not John whatsoever. That is going to be really hard for me to think. I love John. I wish it was sort of him. Everytime this guy talks and does anything, i am still going to think it's that guy in a wheelchair that had lost all faith.
I would also like someone to discuss the theories on the new "john" (he needs a nickname) and why he wants to leave.
Maybe the whole alternate timeline was there just to remind us how pathetic their lives were?
I was so happy to see Cindy and Zack and Emma!
I nearly fell apart when Juliet died the SECOND time. Jiminy Christmas! (Yes, Tasha, she died AGAIN.)
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I would also like someone to discuss the theories on the new "john" (he needs a nickname) and why he wants to leave.
I was really hoping that MIB/FLocke would say his NAME so we would be able to call him something ELSE!
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Lots to think about. Sweet dreams y'all.
Me too - "see" you all tomorrow!
I am sure the Temple bound Losties jumped to 2010 with FLocke, Ben, Ilana, Frank and Sun... they saw the airburst/pyro from the Temple.
I agree that they time jumped - but wouldn't it have been to 2007?
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There is discussion on TBI about the secondary timeline. Here is what I posted there:
Here is how I am seeing it in this immediate post LOST fog - the Jughead DID explode (hence the crater, with the construction detritus) and it DID work (hence the alternate timeline). *But* when it reset the events that happened after July 1977, it also caused the existing LOSTies to flash to "present day" on the island (which should still be 2007).
I don't know if I have explained myself properly or not, but that's the best I can do in this foggy moment!
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The Nightline LOST stuff was interesting, but not informing. Waiting for Jimmy Kimmel, then heading to bed.
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Why did Richard say "Don't shot him?" and hasn't the smoke monster seen Richard since he was in chains?
Where is HOME?
Okay...I'm ready.
Sayid is inhabited by Richard? I think Flocke's (till we get a new name)attack killed Richard because 'Sayid' woke up just after Richard went unconcious. I think Richard's 'shackles' were that he was 'sentenced' to work for the island forever by Jacob.
I'm definitely voting for Sayid being Jacob, but it would have made more sense for Jacob to somehow end up in jack's body so it could still be jack v Locke.
Anyone ever seen the moving Sliding Doors? Spoiler: Two simultaneous realities, but with the same basic ending.
More on loopholes and rules breaking:
I think it's deeper than we once thought. I think Ben was shocked at Alex's death because Ben had taken her to temple and she, like Ben was protected by the 'rules'. Ben was taken to temple and ended up with cancer. That wasn't supposed to happen either. MIB wasn't supposed to be able to kill Jacob. MIB has been 'loopholing' for longer than we thought.
flgrl, the hiccup of Jacob taking Sayid's body is that it's inconsistent with MIB. MIB isn't using Locke's body, he's just taken his form. I still believe that there are/were two Smokeys. Jacob being the one that 'judged' and MIB being the one that just attacked and killed.
So, ‘if’ the bomb went off, then Christian’s body got lost and Desmond disappeared off the plane and Charlie lived and Shannon stayed in Australia and Hugo is lucky and Jack was only given one extra bottle of booze instead of two and Rose was confident but Jack was nervous….why?
Circus Mom, assuming you mean 'home' for MIB, there have been just way too many biblical references for me to think that home is anywhere other than by God's side.
or Satan's side.
Circus Mom said...
Why did Richard say "Don't shot him?"
I think he said don't shoot him because he would turn into Smokey if he was shot at? Like in the 4TS, they started shooting at him and the next thing that happened was bad Smokey appearing to kill them all?
So much to process!
I'm, thinking the scratch / cut on Jack's neck (which he noticed in the plane's bathcubby [they are too small to call a room]) is significant. Not sure how.
Glad you mentioned the missing liquor bottle, Hammer, because I noticed that, too.
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Yes PJ, that neck scene couldn't have been just for fill.
Hi all...been too long for me.
I like DocH's LA 10, was wondering why there was a space there and it makes sense to me after hearing on Kimmel that they did that for a reason.
I don't understand the alternate timeline though. Shannon's not on the flight, Jack and Rose change demeanors, and worst of all Hurley now believes he is lucky?
MIB = Smokey = Flocke = Island Christian = Island Yemi
I do agree there is another smokey type that is Jacob but I think we have only seen it once and that was back when Locke encountered it in season one.
When Flocke said he also wanted to go home it reminded me of Ben Affleck's character in Dogma. The Arch angel banished from heaven.
Welcome back, L4E!
I don't understand the alternate timeline though. Shannon's not on the flight, Jack and Rose change demeanors, and worst of all Hurley now believes he is lucky?
If you consider how MANY things might have changed if that bomb exploded, it makes it easier to wrap your head around. No incident might mean that Widmore wasn't banished, meaning Penny might have grown up without her father, meaning she didn't meet Desmond... it would have had a profound affect on a lot of things.
Shannon not being on the flight probably has more to do with Maggie Grace not agreeing to return to the show, but it was not difficult to explain it away.
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WOW!
Among other things, what's the significance of the clarity of the water?
Because Fake Locke is Smokey who is the Nemesis, I think it would have been neat if Richard (only) had seen a character played by Titus Welliver (sp?).
I thought the underwater Island was very interesting. Was the round thing on the left a piece of Ankh? However, if all the Others, Desmod, and Rousseau were on the Island, how can this be?
Someone on the LP said the awakened Sayid sounded more like Jacob; I'm withholding judgment.
I have so many questions I can't process them all.
8) Jim
I was also wondering about the cut on the neck.
I think MIB hatched his plan when we saw him sitting on the island with Jacob when the Black Rock was anchored at sea. By Ben's thinking, he didn't kill Jacob, Ben did.
If you consider how MANY things might have changed if that bomb exploded, it makes it easier to wrap your head around.
I agree PJ but then what about all the backstories from the first 3 seasons? the Ones that made the show good. Are those to be forgotten?
Hey there L4E.
In my opinion, yes suspend the backstories because 815 landing IMO is a 'what if' alternate time line that will be ended/reversed something to that effect.
Someone on the LP said the awakened Sayid sounded more like Jacob; I'm withholding judgment.
Someone interpreted that from "what happened". That's all Sayid said.
I think the clarity of the water was because Jacob had died. It was like they had never seen that before. Did Bruce Lee cut his hand to test the water and did his hand heal. English may be distasteful to his tounge but his language gives me a headache. At least we didn't have to read his subtitles
I too accept that the water was no longer 'healing' because Jacob is dead. Sayid IMO was not saved but clearly 'taken over'. To me the debate is who. Like I mentioned before I am leaning towards Richard. MIB wanted him in the foot to kill him...he didn't come...so MIB went out there and crushed his throat with a hit and at least one of the knee blows. Then, Sayid awoke...just the way I saw it.
L4E...I also thought the the water clarity had something to do with Jacob's death. My husband said later in another scene the water had cleared up. No matter how many times I looked, I couldn't tell, so I can't say it was clear later.
While I kept "looking," I did see the extra that looks like Juliet standing right by Sun in the scene that Flocke punches Richard.
I have read theories on her Flashback from the season finale last year. My problem with that theory is wouldn't someone recognize her as Juliet? Anyway, that hasn't been discussed here, but I was just thinking about it.
I really like Hammer's idea more. I am really trying to find ways to break this Sayid is Jacob theory. I just don't like it. Out of all the characters, Sayid is the last one I would want to be the new Jacob.
Could it be possible, that what we see is really all these people's souls? I am trying to get this in with the traditional view of human nature here, because of Juliet knowing it worked right before she died. I don't see how she would know unless she was experiencing the act of going over to the other side(which happens at the time of someone's death.) The "self" or soul is immortal and lives forever, even when the physical body is dead. It could be all of these people need to die and fulfill their "purpose" before being freed. Juliet fulfilled hers and was able to go back. AS everyone knows, I am not as smart as you peeps, but I am going to build on my theory somehow and let you know how it goes if i actually get better evidence LOL.
Yes, work on that theory. I think those souls are whisperers maybe!
Pretty sure I mentioned it here, but the scene about the coffee and going dutch reminded me of the scenes with Charlotte and Dan. She was telling him of memory she had be he didn't remember yet. I get the feeling we are going to see that scene.
I am rethinking the Sayid is Jacob idea for several reasons.
1) Sayid is wearing a black shirt. Simple, but D&C were kind of blatant with the white clothes / black clothes. Locke is wearing black. (BTW, why didn't anyone look at Sayid'd wound [or lack thereof] after he was pulled from the water?!)
2) The paper in the ankh said that if Sayid died they would be "in trouble" or something like that. This originally led me to believe that Jacob would be angry, but now I think that maybe it is because Jacob knew that, should Sayid die, MIB might take over?
So what the heck is Maggie Grace so busy doing that she wouldn't return? Maybe she was holding out for more money and they told her to take a hike?
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Good stuff Doc...especially the burials. Hmmmm.
For some reason I was thinking Jin and Sun were not married either on the flight. I need to go look at that. I got that idea for some reason and cant remember why.
8) Sun does not speak or understand English.
I took it as she did just wouldn't admit too it. There seemed to be some hesitation there.
I like the idea of Christian's body "sucked out over the island".
Good point Tahsa. "It worked". So are we seeing them all die off on the island so they can return to their new "timeline"?
Good point Doc...tallies. They didn't show them the 1st time around either, so I'm guessing that the point of showing us the 2nd time around was to show the differences in the folks we saw the first time. Hence no need to show the tallies because we didn't see them the 1st time?
For some reason I was thinking Jin and Sun were not married either on the flight. I need to go look at that. I got that idea for some reason and cant remember why.
The security agent called Sun Ms. Paik. Maybe that is why? I caught it, but forgot it until now.
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Yes I went back, so then I looked at the rings. Didn't see any. So Jacob didn't touch them. Oh my head!
lost4ever said...
So are we seeing them all die off on the island...
Or is it the other way around? They'll die off in/around LA so they'll be securely anchored to the Island?
If they all end up in LA, we'll lose our connection to the Island.
8) Jim
And you are questioning you own smarts, Tasha LOL. Great catch.
I just rewatched...security woman clearly calls her Miss, neither Ms. (ambiguous) or Mrs.
Jim, that would be a great way to realign the two time lines. I like it.
I'm a ding bat, it wouldn't matter Miss, Ms., or Mrs. because she said Paik not Kwon....duuuuh.
DocH said...
rendezvous with Jae?
What an evil thought! I like it!
8) Jim
The rendezvous with Jae is a delicious and evil idea, but my instincts tell me no simply because Jae was a peripheral character and if he were to be introduced again this season, I think we would have seen him in the "previously on" section.
Speaking of which, HOW MANY TIMES were they going to show the Juliet/Sawyer scene?! I LOVED that scene but three (or was it four) times in the space of fifteen minutes was just too much!
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Agreed on both points PJ.
Now why would Flocke announce to the folks on the beach that he is disappointed in them. Any chance it's because he is the 'good' guy and they have been helping the wrong dude? Just a weird thing to put in the scene...I thought.
Interesting, Hammer, the Nemesis just "wants to go home."
8) Jim
Yeah Jim, seems simple. But not if he's been banished from a utopia. And you know how I am about taking character's words literal sometimes (like the runway). He said it when asked what he wanted...maybe that's his whole motive.
But why hide it. Jin is already out of the area... she doesn't need to hide it from him.
Maybe she was afraid if she stepped in Jin would find out she understood English. I thought she understood Rose and Bernard on the plane but covered it up nicely, she actually stuttered when Jin asked her.
Could be Doc. But I think it's underwater because that is one of the effects of detonating the bomb. The past changes AND the island's powers are ruined. As Hugo once said..."Bloop."
How does the theory oh "Whatever happened, happened" come into play now? i'm getting more confused just thinking about it.
Beside the book Hugo was holding...this episode was missing easter eggs. Going back to look.
First one...Rose is reading a copy of Weekly Woodsman...LOL.
Well for the record. The ducking under would be a much more interesting idea than the detonator sinking it.
DocH said...
No one has mention the Barracks. After Ajira in '07, when Sun and Frank went there and she retrieved the photo of Jin in the '70's.
Also, Christian showed up there too, and told Sun that she needed to wait there for John Locke...makes me think that CS and Jacob aren't on the same team.
@ the detonator location. I suppose it could be that the detonator ruining the drill site didn't sink the island, but the result doing it and changing the past may have a chain reaction causing the demise of the island?
Speaking of the bomb going off... Others have commented about the construction debris (crane, etc.) not being rusty from age, and all that. At first I thought it wouldn't be rusty if it had been covered over with concrete all this time in the hatch. However, and here's my vast ignorance of bombs, but I would have expected the metal in the immediate blast area to have been melted, or at least melted together - not all loose pieces of metal like we saw - with or without Juliet underneath.
Okay, when the bomb detonated, the "pocket of energy" kept it from acting like it normally would. Instead, the people, the hole and the hardware were sent forward from 1977 to 2007. Everyone woke up a few minutes later. The metal hadn't had time to rust.
I don't know how to relate that to Flight 815, except that sending the "package" forward used up all the energy that would have caused the breakup.
My head hurts.
8) Jim
Thanks Jim in G and DocH for the bomb info/thoughts. Makes sense to me!
If the Island rose up under the Black Rock, then it must have been a real "moist" experience for the people on board. The ground wouldn't become dry immediately; it would take time to drain.
I hope that's what happens. The CGI will be unbelievable -- and expensive.
The Others still have a weapons gap. They're carrying modern weapons, but their warning rocket is made from bamboo. No Very pistol?
If spreading a barrier of ashes keeps the monster out, why did the Others need to barricade the gate?
I need to rewatch to get all the details.
8) Jim
Also note that the Flintstone stopwatch (sand clock) that was used to time Sayid's submersion wasn't very modern.
And the sand was black and white!
Btw, Duke mentioned something on TBI - Kate climbed down the tree and found the hatch door. Whether or not the bomb exploded, that hatch got built. Which ties to the idea I had about how Chang and Radzinsky survived.
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Does anyone else think it is odd that when Jack was told that saving Sayid might have some "risks", he never ASKED what they might be? Especially a surgeon, such as himself, who is used to explaining procedural risks to people, might have been curious as to WHAT COULD POSSIBLY HAPPEN?? It's not like he could have had much experience with Temple-Saving, that he might already know all about it!! No one asked Richard about the risks when they took Ben to be saved either. Hmmmmmmm. These people are just too darned non-curious!
But I think Smokey is getting old... he strained his back when he picked-up big ol' Bram last night - I heard a pop, and then an 'oy!'.
Oh my, I needed that laugh, thank you!
The only Whispering I heard last night was right before Kate went missing - and Jack was running the halls to find her. Were there any other times besides that pre-capture scene?
I did hear whispers one other time earlier, but I don't remember the circumstances. I just remember saying to DH, "Well Hammer's going to be pleased!"
These people are just too darned non-curious!
True, but this is not new information! Remember, these are the people who heard a monster, killed a polar bear, watched the pilot get ripped from the cockpit, saw Smokey, found DHARMA dropped food palates, and NEVER once sat around talking about it all!
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Bobola is back. Hasn't changed a bit. TBI has been restored to its full glory! LOL
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@ whispering...just hearing them is frustrating now...not really pleasing. I want to know the source!
Yep PJ, TBI is back. Only 300+ posts and already people are posting thoughts already discussed. Grrrr.
That's why I am done over there..I don't want to go back and read them all. So I am just going to keep quiet. It's not so bad here, but over there it used to be if you refresh the page it would have little triangles by posts you have not read. It's not doing that for me and I am getting frustrated. Is it my browser or did they take that off?
They took it off. I have just been making a mental not of approx. which post number I was at when I left.
But after 5 years over there, I guess I'm just tired of smarty pants posts and people posting stuff that was already posted 12 hours ago.
Plus PJ et al do a good job of bringing any original thoughts from TBI over here. So if you don't want to bother with the minutia over there, this really a good place.
Thanks, Hammer. Yeah - I am still over at TBI, but mostly I think I like to see if there is anything noteworthy to share over here! LOL.
And I expect I will share a few goofy things too. Gees, the crazy posts have already started!
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Goofy post example: TBI'ers are claiming that when Bernard comes back from the bathcubby, he says, "I missed you too, Viv."
Gees, Louise, the power of suggestion is crazy. He says, "I missed you too, beautiful."
It is a sweet moment. But NOT an easter egg!
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LOL. Yes, that was a quiet funny. Blonde moment.
Yikes!
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I too think I am done with TBI but am glad some of you are still contributing to it. Without it, I would never have found this wonderful little island.
Interesting info about detonators and melting scrap. I seem to remember Jack falling some distance before landing at the bottom of the Hatch pit.
Smokey ( Flocke ) can't enter the circle of ash. I think the first time we saw it was when Ben took Locke to the cabin. The cabin looked protected then. I wonder if that was what Claire was for. To remove the ash around the cabin so Flocke ( dressed as Christian ) could enter?
Okay, there's a comment on ye olde LP that the Event -- not "The Incident" -- was caused not by Juliet setting off the bomb, but by Jacob dying. My response sequence was something along the line of "No -- Hmm -- Unh -- Maaaybe..."
This little tale got longer as I typed it. Sorry about that.
Jacob dies at night in 2007; the Event occurs during the day in 1977. We're dealing with time travel here, so what do a few hours matter?
First (the short one): Ben kills or mortally wounds Jacob; Flocke pushes Jacob/corpse into the fire where he/it is instantly consumed; the battle of the foot plays out; the Others (plus) on the beach see the signal flare; the Nemesis beats Richard senseless, throws him onto his shoulder, and walks away.
Second: Juliet is beating uselessly on the bomb (I know more than I want to know about nukes and nuke safety); thirty years into the future Jacob dies; the time travellers (but not the DHARMAites) get launched forward to 2004; in slightly different circumstances (different backstories?), they have boarded Oceanic 815; things start to unravel when a slightly disoriented Jack notices a cut on his neck and is joined by Desmond (How did he get there except to play his role as time cop?); there are various interactions up through the point when everyone is trying to get away from the airport; gradually (but not yet seen) more and more of the passengers become more aware of what really happened on the Island and -- somehow -- go forward to 2007, where they wake up in the vicinity of the Swan crater; they do all the things we've seen them do, to include seeing the Others at the Temple set off the signal flare to warn (recall?) Others located anywhere else on the Island to head for safety.
The signal flare is the unifying event that tells us that everyone is together in time again. Remember Kate telling Jack, "Just because we're in the same place doesn't mean we're together."?
Imponderables:
*Why was the Island under water (Brigadoon, kinda?)
*What is the nature of Jacob (phoenix-like?).
8) Jim
Smokey ( Flocke ) can't enter the circle of ash. I think the first time we saw it was when Ben took Locke to the cabin. The cabin looked protected then. I wonder if that was what Claire was for. To remove the ash around the cabin so Flocke ( dressed as Christian ) could enter?
Excellent idea, L4E!
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I like the idead of the Event happening because Jacob died...makes it much more interesting :) So now what, Jacob has been in charge of the island for over 100 years, right? Who's in charge now? Already can't wait for next Tuesday!!
I got you post via email Lins. Did you figure it out?
If we follow the 'rules' of the O6 then wouldn't the LA 10 be;
Jack
Kate
Marshall
Bernard
Rose
Charlie
Boone
Locke
Jin
Sun
No, I think I've been thinking too much! :) I can't even think of the right words to say what I want to say...too much to process and not enough sleep :)
OK, so what if we are actually seeing only one timeline. Flight 815 dosn't crash on the island but Jack, Kate, Locke et al are destioned to be there. Between 2004 and 2007 they somehow crash there, or land on the runway.
When Juliette is pulled out of the hole she says "it didn't work" because they are on the island. Before she dies she realizes that "it worked" and they are there anyway.
A clue to this is that Cindy says "I know them. They were on the first plane."
Okay Lins. LOL
I was gonna say that the island likely sunk in 77 which would explain all the stuff we saw already built and would explain why Des could not crash the plane. HTH.
CM, I like the thinking, but I'm pretty confident there are two time lines now.
OK, so what if we are actually seeing only one timeline. Flight 815 dosn't crash on the island but Jack, Kate, Locke et al are destioned to be there. Between 2004 and 2007 they somehow crash there, or land on the runway.
Wow. Okay. Deep.
So what you are saying is that
a) the bomb changed SOMETHING (whether or not it went off)
b) there is a *new* 2004 - which we saw with some of the LOSTies on the plane
but
c) what transpires BETWEEN that new 2004 and 2007 brings them to the beginning of the episode last night (Kate in a tree, etc.)
Gees, that seems so *simple* and possible now that you have laid it all out there. Wow. I am bowled over.
(Is this what people have been trying to say all along, and I only just got it?)
: ) P
Okay, CM, I posted your brilliant theory to TBI, I will pass along any thoughts worth sharing.
: ) P
Des was not on the plane to be a time cop. He was there to show us that he wasn't in the hatch.
Or....perhaps he showed up and disapeared while they passed over the island.
Oh, and I meant Hurley, not the Marshall in LA10
Whoa, wait. If you meant it the way PJ stated it...brilliant CM!!
That is exactly what I meant. PJ always translates great for me.
Wow CM, that really changes my thought process....breathe, breathe...
The smoke monster can't cross ash, but he also can't cross water. Ben summoned him by draining water. The island is the perfect prison for him.
Perhaps Jacob is not smoke, but water?
Now you're just gettin' greedy.
Mind if I process the first theory first? LOL
CM's theoryalso supports my thinking that all the Losties that died on the island will now die off the island (Shannon, Locke, Charlie, Libby, etc.) because when the Losties go back to the island in 2007…WHH and course correction are still valid.
Hammer, I agree.
Additional theory.
It's not construction debris in the hole. It is the framework and fixins of the hatch. Juliette is down there because she pressed the fail safe key.
Good point CM, I have been complaining that they never explained exactly what turning the key did, but I think you figured it out. I pointed out earlier that this event acted the same as when Des turned the key except (disappointing) that Kate still had her clothes on. But Des and Charlie went temp. deaf just like Kate et al. Other time flashes hurt their ears, but didn't create the deafness.
Okay, CM, did you meet Damon's mom over the hiatus or something? You're coming up with some amazing thoughts and I am SO impressed! (Not that you haven't before, but these are coming at us, wham, bam, thank you, ma'am!)
: ) P
Locke through Jacob into the fire but he isn't there. Locke even says to Ben, "You can stop staring at the fire. Jacob's gone." It is clear there is no body and no bones in the fire pit.
Sawyer, on the plane has changed too. The old Sawyer wouldn't have warned Hurley not to tell people he won the lottery. He would have immediatly befriended him to start a scam.
Yes, it's very clear they are different people on the plane now. Their flashback stories are insignificant now...at least in the alt. time line.
I am liking CM's theory on one timeline. They will be destined to be there before 2007 occurs. Not sure if I agree with Juliet turning the key because that whole scene pointed towards them arriving where they are. As in Miles comment, "Guess we're not in 1977, huh?". I am not sure but I think when Des turned the key there was nothing left, just a hole, but I can't remember for sure.
There is one thing really bothering me though and that is what Hammer stated:
Their flashback stories are insignificant now.
Which, after what we have seen in only 2 episodes, appears to be.
Things I noticed.
Hurley tells Jacob that he sent Jin to get Jack. Jacob says JIN can't help him. I would expect him to say Jack can't help him.
Jack is looking for a pen in his jacket to save Charlie. He notices it is mission. I think Jack 'knows' something has changed. It also reminds me that Boone collected all the pens after the crash.
Smoke monster can't cross ash, water and the sonic fence. What else?
circus Mom said...
The smoke monster can't cross ash, but he also can't cross water. Ben summoned him by draining water. The island is the perfect prison for him.
Perhaps Jacob is not smoke, but water?
I love the theory about the one timeline, but I especially love this one! In the Old Testament, there is a law that God gave to the Israelites, that they were to take an unblemished female cow, kill it outside the camp and burn it all...then they would take the ashes and mix them with water and that is what they would use to purify themselves, to make themselves clean before God. That's what I thought of when I read this theory.
And regarding the new timeline and OA815, the one thing I noticed about them all on the plane was how different they seemed, with a few exceptions. I like the idea that they will still all end up connected and back on the island.
Smoke monster can't cross ash, water and the sonic fence.
I missed the water part, when was that?
This reminds me of an episode of the Fringe last season when Dr. Bishop is explaining Deja Vu. He always talks about it and the characters tell them he has explained it before. Everyone has choices and when we choose one path, the other path is still there. It was in the episode "The Road not Taken.".
I found this...
Walter explains that while we experience time as a linear progression, in fact every choice we make creates parallel universes. As a result, time is more like a branching tree of alternative realities. Déjà vu, he says, is just a brief glimpse of an alternative reality. You feel like you've been somewhere before because you actually have been there in another reality.
Maybe eventually the Losties will all realize it, kind of like Desmond did.
I don't think I can watch both of these shows at the same time. The shows and my huge exam on Human Nature on Monday are connecting and confusing me.
Okay, so I have watched the first hour of JUST the post explosion side of things. There are a few things that are said which relate directly to the past as we know it. However, any of those things COULD be explained away with a variation of the past.
For example, Kate says they are at the hatch after Desmond blew it up.
At first glance that sounds like the past as we know it, but in the "new" reality, Desmond could blown up the hatch.
Another example, Hurley, at Jacob's urging, asks Jin if he knew about the hole in the wall where he was with the French team.
Again, if 1977 were different, then maybe Rousseau's team arrives and spends years on the island blissfully happy and later encounter Jin. We saw Montand's armless body, but we didn't see his arm!
So far, the theory still looks brilliant to me!
: ) P
In the new 2007 there is at least one other child (besides Zak and Emma) with the temple losties. I guess they can have kids in the new timeline.
Also, one of the others who is shoring up the temple looks A LOT like Michael.
Oh, and Kate took Jacks pen.
I was sort of guessing that the smoke monster can't cross water because Ben summons him by pulling the plug in that water basin which to me allows him in.
Why do they hide from the monster in the temple if the monster lives in the tunnels around the temple. Or is he there trying to get in.
I sort of got that the whispers are the voices of the others echoed through the tunnels. The others at the temple seem, mostly, "older" than the others at the beach. I'm not sure where I'm going with this.
I've been wondering a couple of things:
What happened with the French team when they (minus Rouseau) went under the Temple wall? Rouseau said they went crazy, but they DID come back from the hole.
Did they use the same kids for Zach and Emma? They too would be 6 years older - can't use Walt, but CAN use them?
I LIKE CM's ideas about the one time line and about Jacob being water. Makes some kind of sense, especially with the pool in the Temple, "evaporating" in the fire pit, etc. Nice, Circus Mom!
Did they use the same kids for Zach and Emma? They too would be 6 years older - can't use Walt, but CAN use them?
The kids certainly looked the same in the brief glance I got, but they did fantastic re-casting of the very young Sawyer, so who knows?
: ) P
I was thinking too about the "2 smokies" idea - in light of CM's suggestion that Jacob is water. If he is, then he wouldn't likely be also a "smokie". More likely, there is ONE smokie - Flocke - who kills/doesn't kill people according to his own agenda. Even as Flocke, he doesn't come out of the foot and kill everyone, just (maybe?) Richard.
L4E, never fear, that statement applies to the new alt. time only. Especially if CM is correct, all it means is that their backstories only mattered to their lives up until the incident. Now that they have changed the past, it falls along the same lines as Frogurt getting killed in the past. He actually died in the present while he was time traveling...he didn't die in the past. So their old FBs still happened, just before the past was changed, now their personalities are different (for now). I believe that if CM is correct, they will spend the next few episodes 'remembering' their past and will find their way back to the island...after my list of the dead dies again.
CM @ whispers...your awesome streak is broken. LOL
The whispers COULD be echoes in the tunnels, but there aren't tunnel for 99% of the whispers. So for now...I'm still sticking with my ever-evolving theory. :)
Hammer, I'm still with your whispers theory. I just think the tunnels have something to do with the delivery or 'intercom' system which makes us hear them.
When Walt showed himself to Locke in the pit he was a apparation, which should mean smokey. He was dripping wet and spoke, or seemed to speak, backwards.
All the other apparations could tie in to MIB.
Yeah CM, we've talked about all the things we think are likley MIB.
I may be wrong, but I thought he was dry when he spoke to John = MIB. He was wet and talked backward when he spoke to Shannon = Walt's special powers.
Gotcha on the delivery system.
Doc, I think I have a solution to CS. Broken record here, but course correction. Since WHH, his body can't make it home AND be back on the island. So maybe Oceanic loses some cargo from this flight or another flight while passing over the island?
There is reason for confusion about WHEN the island was underwater. Some are thinking it was pre-Black Rock (which would explain how the ship ended up in the middle of the island - if the island "rose up" beneath it). However, there were Dharma buildings and a swing set...it looked like modern-day island, not 1800's island. The 4TS was there as well, with just a foot, like in current time, not ancient time. If it rises and falls, it could have come up under the black rock, but it sank again - and rose again when? In the future not yet disclosed? The underwater island was then a flash forward? It seems the only possible conclusion.
Well, Doc had mentioned earlier that maybe the island 'ducks' down. Maybe it goes down when it needs to purge itself of the destruction that MIB talked about...it ends the same...we have to kill the mortals...the Jacob sends for more to try(?) again.
Maybe Doc was right about the barracks looking like they were underwater.
But then, if at least some of the "hostiles" are people brought to the island at various times - ala Black Rock, etc.,where would they be while the island was "purging"? And since they are Dharma buildings, the purging would have had to happen during the current time line, or sometime between 1977 and 2004. Maybe ALL the hostiles/native/temple people are "time traveling" and thus miss the underwater parts? Hmmmmmmmmm
Since we're on an alternate timeline, I'm surprised Frank isn't flying Flight 815. He was supposed to.
8) Jim
Jim in Georgia said...
Since we're on an alternate timeline, I'm surprised Frank isn't flying Flight 815. He was supposed to.
I thought the same thing Jim. I was kind of surprised to hear Captain Nolan say he was flying the plane.
Rita, just fishing here...but maybe the true hostiles get the baptism treatment. Ben's others seem to not really be others. They dressed up and acted like hostiles. I think Ben's others and his agenda is what got him out of favor with Jacob and ended up with cancer. He was doing what MIB spoke of...corrupting, fighting, destroying....
@ the pilot...(putting the needle on the record)...WHH. Maybe we find out he gets killed shortly too. ;)
Do we know if this is still the same flight? I remember the time zone thing being way off in the past and people saying it was a time discrepancy between the island and the outside world. If the plane makes it this time and actually flies at the same flight times, would it have been dark in LA? Or is that not significant to anything. I know it would be a whole day off because it is almost 2 in the afternoon in Sydney right now. Was the plane supposed to land at 10:42 at night or in the morning?
The plane should have never passed over the island anyway, unless it was 1000 miles off course.
The plane should have never passed over the island anyway, unless it was 1000 miles off course.
Or unless the island MOVED which I've heard it is prone to doing!
: ) P
Thanks DocH - Of course, I meant Captian Norris, not Nolan. :) Don't know where THAT came from!
(tread, Tarzan, tread!)
Because I'm still convinced that the reality is on the Island and the successful landing is a side trip, I think the missing Christian is less than mystical. Way back at the beginning, Jack was having trouble getting the Casket loaded onto the aircraft. Oceanic finally relented. But (music rises to crescendo), down in the baggage area the guy in charge said, "Not only 'no,' but he..."
However, the missing casket, and to the unexplained wound on the neck, will begin to pull Jack back (forward?) to the reality in 2007.
BTW, why was Locke so cheerful? I doubt that he really went on a walkabout as a paraplegic.
(Fear not for Tarzan. He is a beloved of the Island and is being protected just as the Others are.)
8) Jim
DocH said...
witnessed most of finale already...
Someone alleged, but has not demonstrated, that Sayid's passport -- Iranian, not Iraqi -- had a 2007 date stamp in it.
So, people who are on the "new" 815 have done their duty and have been rewarded(?) by being returned to the Outside without their personal baggage (Hurley, Locke, Boone), except for Kate.
My head is gonna hurt for three months.
8) Jim
Since the above, I've download a picture. The year might be 04 or 07 or 09. I can't even accurately make out the month and day. I think it's intentionally fuzzy.
An interesting thought occurred: Given the world political climate, wouldn't it be interesting if the ultimate hero of this whole thing was a Muslim Iraqi and former member of the Republican Guard named Sayid Jarrah?
Now my head really hurts.
8) Jim
Doc, I very much like your theory of why CS's casket is gone. Oceanic loaded it and therefore can't explain where it is.
BTW, I would bet Tarzan will post soon about how many moons ago, he slipped and fell into a 'jacuzzi' and hasn't had a gray hair since.
LOL...so she found his loophole?
DocH said...
witnessed most of finale already...
I like this idea. The stuff happening currently on the island
is leading us to the point when we see the opening scene of this season which might be the final scene of the show.
I guess what I am saying is that what Juliet did ( The Incident ) isn't what brought us to the point of seeing the "new 815". They have not changed anything yet to create an alternate reality.
Thanks for liking my idea on Claire's purpose on the island PJ. From the evidence I have seen, she is not dead, just a Flockee.
I like the Jacob/water idea CM. After all isn't water a nemesis to fire. And where there's smoke... I just didn't recall if we saw Smokey not being able to cross water. I wonder if he has ever visited Hydra island?
Hammer I think I get it but I might not like it.:)
Thanks DocH. They announced it on Kimmel that the finale is a Sunday, May 23. Coincidentally enough it is the same date as the season 3 finale. I remember this because that is the day my father passed and this year it is the due date of my sis-in-law.
Hmmmmmmmm. I wonder if that was NOT a dream sequence? But related directly to what we saw at the end of last week... Claire, and Kate -- gunpoint taxi-jacking, foot-loose in LA.
Do you mean that the scene where the phone rings, Kate wakes up, goes into Aaron's room and sees Claire might have been a flash to this "alternate" reality? If so, brilliant move by D&C, and brilliant theory by DocH!
: ) P
D&C podcast is out.
Dr. Chang/Halliwax/Candle in a Bud Light commercial in a lab coat saving the world….to funny.
Not a football family, but dh TiVo's the game for the commercials. I will watch for that one!
: ) P
LOL. Thanks, DocH, that was fun.
: ) P
Hammer, thanks for the heads up about the podcasts. Wow.
CM, based on what I heard, your theories are holding some serious water. Of course, I bet there are people with other theories who thought *they* heard veiled references to confirmations *g*.
: ) P
I wish Tarzan would go to TBI and straighten out Knowitall.
Your are welcome PJ. I actually went back to see if I could tell if CM came up with her theory BECAUSE of the podcast. LOL.
The only thing I STILL noticed is that they STILL haven't taken fan questions or addressed the whispers. Even though they are still part of the show!
In Passing
A couple of weeks ago, I got an offer via email from Amazon to download Kindle for the PC. I did. I then went to the Kindle Store and typed "free" in the search block. I'm now reading Twenty Thousand Leagues under the Sea by Verne via Kindle (when I'm not trying to keep up with Lost).
Hey, it was free. *grin*
I doubt that I got the email because I'm "special," so if you're curious about the Kindle, take a look.
8) Jim
Maybe this time LA X part 2 will end differently .
Soooo, I really think that Sayid isn't Flacob and if Sayid isn't Flichard, then he's got to be Zombie Sayid, no?
Oh, and the podcast eliminated my heartless theory that 815 is in Bizarro world. LOL
Maybe this time LA X part 2 will end differently .
LOL, Hammer.
Did you see the two video podcasts, too? They were MARKED as audio when I clicked on them, but they were video. Nothing spectacular, but every moment of LOST time is good time these days.
: ) P
For those hitting the refresh button: a new post is up!
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