Now that we are entering the redux stage of our programming, are we going to see Kate's adjusted reality in flashbacks? In "What Kate Did" we saw Kate, in flashbacks, killing her father (whom she thought was her step-father), being arrested, being "saved" by the black horse, and escaping Edward Mars, and visiting the her (step)father at his recruiting station. How has the "incident" affected these events?
Interestingly, "What Kate Did" is also the episode where Mr. Eko says, "Do not mistake coincidence for fate."
Things that make you go HMMMM.
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214 comments:
1 – 200 of 214 Newer› Newest»From the end of the last post, was that little end discussion about the latest podcast & subsequently dropping a "heartless theory" - a foray into spoiler/preview territory?
As I remember, we decided that discussion of podcasts were not spoilerific since they are released by D&C. As far as I am concerned, what they say is fair game.
If you would like to revisit the issue as a group, that is fine with me.
: ) P
Before air time, What does Kate do?
I'm clueless.
8) Jim
Doc...no, Bizarro world was heartless when I first proposed it and I have not seen any previews yet. D & C jokingly confirmed that the FS is not Bizarro world.
Sorry, DocH. Didn't understand you. Nothing spoilerish IMO, but by now, you've probably heard the podcasts.
: ) P
Kate's stories have always been my least favorite. When we last saw Kate after the "new 815" landed, she had 3 hostages and was speeding away somewhere in a taxi. If Hurley is now lucky, Sun and Jin aren't married, etc....I wonder if Kate still killed her father?
I found it interesting last week that Kate went to Jack b4 Sawyer after discovering them near the hatch hole. In fact I think she looked at Sawyer first then awoke Jack.
Interesting though L4E @ Kate's crime. I think it's going to be about what she does in the new reality (I'm pushing course correction here again), her past isn't as important as it was before detonation.
Just a weird tidbit here: I think I'm the odd one here, but L4E's comment about Kate's stories being his least favorite made me aware of how much I DON'T view segments or seasons or anything really in terms of what I like best. I just listen to the story being told and take it for they are telling me.
This is the ONLY show I;ve ever watched in this manner.
So you don't have a favorite or least favorite episode or season Hammer? I am just the opposite. I could watch Season 1 over and over but season 5 not so much.
her past isn't as important as it was before detonation
I am not convinced yet that the detonation has changed anything. I think they have more yet to do .
Not yet, because in my mind it's not broken into seasons. It's just one story.
@ Detonation not changing anything...do you mean the end results? I can live with the detonation always happened in the sense that everything including TT always happened.
I am more and more in line with the comment I posted earlier from the "someone else" on the LP that the detonation, if it really happened, was coincidental and that what really caused the Losties to jump back to 2007 was Jacob dying.
8) Jim
I'm willing to listen Jim.
How would his death make them jump?
What DOES Kate do? She takes what she wants, does as she pleases, and runs from consequences. She is committed to nothing and no one.
True dat Miss Kim. Maybe that changes a bit, because the Jack on the island and in the new reality seem weak to me now. Kate seems to really care that Sawyer is hurting AND feels bad for Jack who seems to be a defeated soul.
Guess we have to wait and see what she does.
HAPPY
BIRTHDAY
JULIE!
(not that she comes to TLI much!)
I find it amusing how so many people don't like Kate. I really do.
As to L4E's question of favorites, I tend to see the show as Hammer does - one story. Maybe because I have rewatched enough that the seasons aren't really separate for me.
One episode sticks out - I did NOT like the Jack tattoo episode. Other than that, it is more MOMENTS that I really liked. I loved Charlie's top five list. I loved Rose and Bernard's reunion scene. I loved Jack and Kate's first scene together. I loved Hurley's two minute explanation to his mother about the lie. I loved Penny and Desmond's reunion. I loved Sawyer and Juliet's final scene (both of them! LOL).
: ) P
Miss Kim said...
What DOES Kate do? She takes what...
Wow, you must not like her much... *grin* I think you're right. Kate has trouble relating to anyone. I think the only person she ever loved was Aaron. And maybe her step-father, the Army recruiter.
Hammer said...
How would his death make them jump?
How does a guy morph into other shapes when he(?) is not traveling around as a cloud of smoke? (rhetorical). I dunno how his death causes it, but, in the real world, there's no way the bomb would go off. I think the bomb's effect was completely consumed by the pocket of magnetic energy; otherwise, even if little else happened, Juliet was so close that she would have been shredded. So I have to back into the solution with "what else could be the cause?" Jacob dying is all that's left. He needed to bring Hurley and the others forward so they could help him with his rebirth, kinda phoenix-like except that he either doesn't rise directly out of his ashes or he will rise now that no one is in the foot of the statue to see it happen.
BTW, a new guy on the LP just observed that in LA X in the flight segment no one actually refers to it as 815, so factually it isn't, it just a flight?
And it just occurred to me that we don't yet know if Kate is going to "do" on the Island, in Los Angeles, or both.
I'm still trying to wrap my head about the Island underwater part.
About eight hours to go.
8) Jim
Fair enough Jim, I guess I didn't expect an actual 'how' as much as reason why you think it...which you explained well. Thanks. BTW, I would think that it is just a likely that Jacob dying causes the island to sink...albeit slowly, LOL.
I don't dislike Kate, just agree with what Miss Kim said about her.
Have a good one Julie.
Hammer said...
causes the island to sink...
The first notes was actually to Miss Kim. I guess I should have made that more obvious. *shrug*
Island to sink: Oh, wow! (Maybe I need to scrape the rust off the circuits of my logicacizer.) *smile*
8) Jim
LOL Jim, me too, cause I was responding to PJ @ Kate.
@ Logiacizer, me too, cause I didn't 'see' the logic in Jacob's death making the Losties jump. Not convinced yet, mainly because messing with island's 'powers' is what cause the jumping before...but still plausible.
I don't dislike Kate. I was simply stating what Kate does. If Eko is right, and we shouldn't confuse fate w coincidence, then Kate's circumstances may change but who she is won't. I think that the Island can change people. I agree that Jack seemed different when we saw him last week....but we can't really determine if this is who Jack really is...and would continue to be if not for the events on the Island. Kate did seem to show true concern for Sawyer and Aaron....but only after she experienced the Island. I'm writing this from my phone so please forgive any spelling/content errors I may be making.
To me, it not just Jack and Kate. It was very obvious that Rose was no longer the nervous one on the plane, but Jack was. And Hugo has done a 180 in his outlook on life. I guess I don't know for sure 'what' cause them to change, but change they did.
From TBI: thoughts?
little prince wrote:
I got a question about the Smoke monster. Remember when it took the form of Danielles boyfriend ..Richardo (i think)…she shoots him in the head and he dies…
but when Flocke/monster gets shot…the bullet has no effect on him…could this be a clue to 2 monsters?
in looking at the scene with Danielle further…the fact that Richardo tries to pull the trigger and fails could be a clue that it is not the monster…but mearly possesed by him..kinda like how Sayid may be possesed by Jacob instead of an apparition like Flocke…
+++++++++++++++++++++
Possible, but I think you are bringing a bigger point. I think that may have been the hint that bodies can be possessed. They seemed ’sick’ to Danielle, maybe they were actually possessed? Maybe Sayid’s body IS being possessed unlike Locke’s body? Hmmmm.
Technically, the reason Roberto's weapon failed was that Danielle had removed the firing pin.
As to the "sickness," the Monster "made them sick" (How? I dunno.) so they would die because he needs a body to be (relatively freshly?) dead and in a place he can reach it before he can morph into it's shape. That's why the Others set fire to a body and send it out from land rather than burying it. I'm still trying to figure out how the Monster got to Hydra Island.
8) Jim
Ooooooooh...possessed...like Zombies....I think I've danced around Zombie theories once or twice or thrice!! Fits in w consciousness....
Hammer-I agree completely. Everyone is acting differently than we have known them to act.
I hear ya'll about zombies, but possessed bodies are not zombies, per se. I just wanted to explore the idea that maybe Sayid's body is possessed as opposed to him coming back to life.
Jim, MIB on hydra...maybe he can get there in human form (Locke's likeness) and needs a fresh body like you stated (non-burned and sailing away) to mimic.
Curious to see if the body form of Locke that MIB uses can be killed by 'mortals'. Not 'killing' MIB, just the body he's using?
Jim, MIB on hydra...maybe he can get there in human form (Locke's likeness) and needs a fresh body like you stated (non-burned and sailing away) to mimic.
That would explain the Others odd burial rituals. Could it also explain Patchy's miraculous recurring survivals?
Btw, when I said I was surprised how many people disliked Kate, it wasn't so much about your opinions, but opinions generally (TBI, IRL).
Six more hours!
: ) P
Curious again. Can MIB cross the ash barrier if he has a human form to use? The Templites were just informed that Jacob is dead and assume Smokey is on the way, but maybe they aren't counting on him being in human form as they spread the ash.
Hammer, I suppose that could be true, perhaps that's how Smokey/MIB got into Jacob's cabin ala Christian Shepherd?
I've been thinking about Adam & Eve a little and how it relates to CS and Smokey...if Smokey was using CS's body on the island, could it in fact be Smokey that led the Losties to the cave and ultimately Adam & Eve? Would there be a reason that he would want Jack to find the caves and find the skeletons? No answer yet, just questions...
Anyway, happy that it's LOST day! I have to wait and watch it on DVR...and just to check in, we're having Red Robin take out for dinner tonight :)
Good thought Lins, A & E I can't wait to find out about (still hoping it's Des and Penny).
Dinner....30 miles of white knuckle bumper dodging in the snow storm. Don't even know WHEN dinner will be tonight, much less WHAT it will be.
Lindasy:
perhaps that's how Smokey/MIB got into Jacob's cabin ala Christian Shepherd?
I think Claire may have helped him with that. I wonder if we will get a Claire episode this season like the one they had after her abduction?
Miss Kim:
then Kate's circumstances may change but who she is won't
She seemed to be the same on the "new 815" storyline, whereas some of them appeared to be different ( Jack, Hurley, Rose...)
FTR, I like Kate but not as much as Temple Cindy. She looked great with longer hair.
I liked the way the only shots we got of Claire last week were from the upper chest up. Is she pregnant?
Does anyone think we'll see Boone again? I don't; I think he was only there to give Locke someone to whom he could tell his story/fantasy.
8) Jim
LOST Night Dinner here is Thai Beef Salad. I think tonight's episode is going to be what Kate does..from where we saw her last week at the airport. I am wondering if she killed her father here or did something else? I was wondering why Hurley was in Australia to begin with but realized it's because his chicken business now. So excited, although I am not a huge Kate fan. I really want to know what the heck happened with Claire!
Aldo is back.
Speaking of "Zombies".....
Rousseau "claimed" Clare?
OMG.
Where do we even START with dissecting that episode?!
: ) P
Right PJ? I feel like we learned alot, but what the deuce?
Rousseau "claimed" Clare
That's the impression I got. Now we know why they don't bury their dead.
Yes, we did learn a lot - but to what end? Man, I should have taken NOTES!
So let's see - the Others believe that Sayid is "claimed" by someone/thing (MIB?) just as we did.
We learned that in the adjusted reality, Ethan is still a doctor, Claire is still pregnant (with a boy she is naming Aaron), Kate is still a fugitive (but DID she do it - what ever *it* is?).
Did anyone else think, "Kate is going to deliver Aaron again!" like I did?
: ) P
Rousseau "claimed" Clare?
Why Rousseau? Why not MIB or Christian? I am LOST (pun intended) as to how you jumped to Rousseau?
: ) P
Did anyone else think, "Kate is going to deliver Aaron again!" like I did?
I thought so...we paused it at that point because we were so excited..and then she brought her to the hospital. I was like...awwww man!
The way I understand it is ( so far ), MIB doesn't "claim" bodies, he duplicates them.
Claire looked 'Danielle-esque', but I would think MIB's team did the claiming.
I'm pretty sure Aldo's buddy started to say something about Rousseau being long gone or something when Kate almost stepped on the trip wire. Right before Kate knocked Aldo down she asked him to repeat what he said. (I think) When we saw Clare she looked a little like Rousseau...the two things together made me think that.
The way I understand it is ( so far ), MIB doesn't "claim" bodies, he duplicates them.
Right. Locke, Walt, Christian. What about off island? Libby? Ana-Lucia? Charlie? (Gasp!)
: ) P
If Rousseau really is long gone, then somebody else has a lot of surprise traps set up in a very similar manner....
L4E, the French team was being claimed too. Danielle just killed them before completion. My guess is Claire is complete. CS is a manifestation. But for MIB to win the war, he needs an army. 'Infection' is how he recruits.
Was Rousseau ever buried?
I think she and Karl were buried but Miles dug them up or something...
Nah, Danielle is dead. Her traps will go untripped....until tripped. Besides, the guy did get out what he wanted to say, "She's been gone for years." Not an exact quote.
The mercs buried she and Alex just under the surface of the ground.
Was Rousseau ever buried?
When the freighter people killed her, Miles found her and Carl buried.
The infection (blackness) reached Claire's heart and she now belongs to the Monster, which is obviously the "native" form of the being. So if Sayid doesn't take the pill it will happen to him, too. What's in the pill that Dogen can't (won't?) tell Jack about?
8) Jim
Rousseau has been dead for three years in the "old" reality. In this adjusted reality, it may be far different.
: ) P
Miss Kim said...
Was Rousseau ever buried
After Keamy and his troops were through, the Island began to absorb Rousseau and Karl. That's why their faces and parts of their bodies were still right at the surface. Keamy wouldn't have wasted the time. He left Alex and she was absorbed, too, although we didn't see that one.
8) Jim
Jim, Dogan admitted to Jack that it was poison.
Oh, yeah, poison. Oops. What was the goal? To kill him or to make him sick so they could heal him, again? Jacob wanted him alive, didn't he?
8) Jim
Good point Jim. Hopefully that will play out since Jack didn't give him the pill, maybe Dogan will be more specific with Jack (us) now.
Ethan Rom said his name was Dr. Goodspeed. ??? Why not Dr. Rom?
What was the goal? To kill him or to make him sick so they could heal him, again? Jacob wanted him alive, didn't he?
Well that's is what Dogen's translator TOLD us the note said. We have no way of knowing if that is true, and if not, which one is lying!
: ) P
OOPS. That annonymous was me.
Ethan Rom said his name was Dr. Goodspeed. ??? Why not Dr. Rom?
Ethan was the son of Horace and Amy Goodspeed. I suspect that Rom was a pseudonym so that the audience wouldn't know his heritage, and so that he would fit in with the LOSTies (and so it would anagram to Other Man).
: ) P
Rita said...
Ethan Rom said his name was Dr. Goodspeed. ??? Why not Dr. Rom?
That was running around in the back of my head. He was the son of Horace and Amy Goodspeed. So he used an alias when he was part of the Others? Was Rom Amy's maiden name? How far back does this other timeline go that Ethan would be working in the States?
8) Jim
Right - I'd forgotten he was the baby born to Olivia. Thanks PJ. :)
I mean Amy, not Olivia. Time for bed I think!
I'd forgotten he was the baby born to Olivia.
Easy misstep there, Rita, but Olivia was only ASSUMED to be a Goodspeed. She was around in 1974 (when Ben came to the island), but in 1977 when Ethan was born, it was Amy who was the mother.
: ) P
I mean Amy, not Olivia. Time for bed I think!
I guess we are typing at the same time. Sorry.
: ) P
I find it funny that we have more posts on TLI than there are on TBI - and if Hammer and I were to stop posting over there... LOL
I know it won't last as the show is over in the various time zones, but it is fun to see.
: ) P
I was just gonna say that...LOL.
I know that no one wants to hear me yap about zombies anymore but this is very interesting....
In Haitian Vodou, spirits are divided according to their nature in roughly two categories, whether they are hot or cool. Cool spirits fall under the Rada category, and hot spirits fall under the Petwo category. Rada spirits are familial and congenial, while Petwo spirits are more combative and restless. Both can be dangerous if angry or upset, and despite claims to the contrary, neither is "good" or "evil" in relation to the other.
According to the tenets of Vodou, a dead person can be revived by a bokor, or sorcerer. Zombies remain under the control of the bokor since they have no will of their own. There also exists within the West African Vodun tradition the zombi astral, which is a part of the human soul that is captured by a bokor and used to enhance the bokor's power. The zombi astral is typically kept inside a bottle which the bokor can sell to clients for luck, healing or business success. It is believed that after a time God will take the soul back and so the zombi is a temporary spiritual entity.
Ok, well in the meantime...What is up with men on this show throwing engagement rings in the water?
But for MIB to win the war, he needs an army. 'Infection' is how he recruits
No argument here Hammer. Just throwing this out there but are we sure the French team were the infected and not Rousseau?
Right. Locke, Walt, Christian. What about off island? Libby? Ana-Lucia? Charlie? (Gasp!)
Nice PJ, not sure about Walt but I like the other ones you mentioned, especially since they all died and there corpses were presumably in one piece.
Ok, well in the meantime...What is up with men on this show throwing engagement rings in the water?
Refresh my memory, Tasha...
: ) P
Stick to your guns Miss Kim, you never know where this going!
...What is up with men on this show throwing engagement rings in the water
They may be smarter than I thought.:)
Just throwing this out there but are we sure the French team were the infected and not Rousseau?
I was wondering the same thing. Upon thinking it over, though, I think Rousseau, while admittedly odd, was inherently kind.
: ) P
Don't know for sure L4E, but I take Danielle's story as the hint. Also, if she was a soldier for MIB, she wasn't a very good one. LOL
I remember DamCar joking about the zombie season in podcasts from a couple of years ago Miss Kim.
I have been studying about Descarte's dualism in Philosophy and some theories actually talk about Zombies.
Here is a good link for Zombie theorists lol
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/zombies/
Your excellent zombie research notwithstanding, I really hope that the season is not going to be about half the cast's bodies being "claimed" or inhabited or possessed by MIB or Jacob or whomever. As I said on TBI, it feels mildly contrived and I want to believe that D&C are better than that.
: ) P
Didn't Des throw his ring in the water too?
IF it doesn't get stolen, my bedtime for Bonzo will be: What in the heck was Dogan typing? A letter for a carrier polar bear to take to another camp? LOL
Yes he threw his ring also.
it feels mildly contrived and I want to believe that D&C are better than that.
Agreed PJ. I personally am not all that excited about the flashsidewards yet.
Yes Tasha! Yes Yes Yes! lol Seriously though-what was Sayid being tested for? Response or lack thereof to qualia...the subjective quality of conscious experience.
If it really were to head in the zombie direction, it doesn't have to be contrived at all. It could help play out something great!!! To quote Tasha's Zombie reference: "Few people think zombies actually exist. But many hold they are at least conceivable, and some that they are ‘logically’ or ‘metaphysically’ possible. It is argued that if zombies are so much as a bare possibility, then physicalism is false and some kind of dualism must be accepted. For many philosophers that is the chief importance of the zombie idea. But the idea is also of interest for its presuppositions about the nature of consciousness and how the physical and the phenomenal are related. Use of the zombie idea against physicalism also raises more general questions about relations between imaginability, conceivability, and possibility. Finally, zombies raise epistemological difficulties: they reinstate the ‘other minds’ problem."
Miss Kim, Sayid reacted the way a normal person would to every test:
Don't breathe the ash, scream when your nipples are fried, and scream when your stuck like a marsh mellow at a camp fire. Which means, since we was dead and came back to life, IF it was the spring water that healed him, he should have not reacted to any thing.
Just how I see it.
If the spring water healed him he WOULD react to everything. He would have been healed by the waters and he would still be the Sayid we know and love. The waters did not heal Sayid. His body was being taken over by an "infection". The tests were to see how the infection was spreading--to test how much of Sayid's consciousness remained. Eventually it would reach his heart or whatever and then he would lose the ability to experience qualia.
So..........what did Kate do?
Maybe that is the difference. If he did not feel the pain then he is one of the good guys. No infection. He is just "saved." If he feels the pain, that means he is going to go thru the process of it. He will get infected and "infected" means he is going to go to the dark side. I wonder if they did the same test on Ben at first.
I would think more they were checking his "soul" but I haven't quite figured out how that could relate.
My guess is Ben didn't take the test because the water was clear and he was healed within the time of the sand timer. Sayid was not healed but came back to life...(Dogan shouts, "Get my nipple fryer!"
OK. If I had to guess what was in that capsule.........I would guess that it would be the highly toxic Jatropha....an indigenous plant believed to purge evil spirits and release the trapped souls of the dead. (Sorry Hammer.) Good night little island.
Don't apologize to me Miss Kim. I told you to stick to your guns (theory)! LOL.
I don't let mine go until proven wrong. ;)
I can't tell if people's mind are spinning or if everyone thinks the episode sucked. Only 82 comments on TBI!
TO be honest, I don't usually think episodes are that bad...but this one...It was like the whole episode was about a pill LOL. I liked the Kate story showing her and Claire and to me it seemed like a lot of Deja Vu. That part was good. The whole pill thing was REALLY dragged out and instead of making it so dramatic, I would have rather them just come out, get to the point, and answer some more questions!
With that said, maybe there was more to Jack being saved. Either Jack is the destined leader or they really needed to keep him alive since his name was on the list. If that is even true. This episode seemed like one huge lie. Sayid passed the test, he didn't pass the test. He needs the pill to save him, oh now wait, it's really poison. He will trust you Jack. Thank goodness you didn't give it to him or that would have been more blood on your hands.
In the meantime Sawyer is crying which made me want to cry. The whole conversation with him and Kate seemed like Sawyer was realizing how it wasn't really Jack's fault. One event leads to another event. If anything, Juliet wouldn't have changed her mind if she had not seen Sawyer looking at Kate the way he did when they met up with Bernard and them. I have a really bad feeling Sawyer is going to die soon.
An interesting fact...the date on the unltrasound was 10/22/2004.
Tasha said...
ultrasound
Ah, ya beat me to it.
BTW, you people clearly stayed up past your bedtime last night! *smile* But then I'm old.
Gotta agree with Doc; except for sticking Ethan into the mix, the action off the Island came close to being as exciting as "How Jack got his tattoo." I hope the focus groups who saw these things first were about as impressed with them as they were with Nikki and Paulo.
I'm beginning to feel like they're wasting my time with the off-Island stuff.
Is the ultrasound date another prop department gaff or is the new date significant?
Maybe more importantly, has it ever been said in-universe that the original Flight 815 crashed on September 22? Enhanced shows don't count. That was the date of the premiere, but that doesn't necessarily mean the same thing.(FlashForward premiered on Sep 24, 2009 and we know from the content that the Blackout occurred on October 6, 2009; Fringe was extraordinarily fuzzy about the "whens.") I can't remember the Losties celebrating any holidays on the Island that would help calibrate the calendar.
8) Jim
Fell asleep watching Kimmel. I don't know if he had anyone on, but the "Lost Secrets" was Jin saying the reason the statue has four toes....diabetes.
JIG:
I'm beginning to feel like they're wasting my time with the off-Island stuff.
Feeling the same way. I'm just worried that is going to continue for all the LA X throughout the season.
There was finally a little humor involved last night with Sawyer's line about Sayid deserving a second chance because he was an Iraqi torturer. I also liked Doc Arzt classic line "Hey' I'm walkin here"
Tasha said: "Sayid passed the test, he didn't pass the test. He needs the pill to save him, oh now wait, it's really poison. He will trust you Jack. Thank goodness you didn't give it to him or that would have been more blood on your hands."
The pill could have been poison if taken by Jack but (for what ever reason)not necessarily if taken by Sayid. Would it have been "more blood on Jack's hands" or one more life he was able to save? Just a thought.
And yes, Jim. I was up wayyyy past my bedtime. It worked out ok though. My Dad had surgery yesterday and I was up with him anyhow. Thinking about LOST helped pass the time nicely.
I kind of liked last night's episode. It may not have given the Big Island much to talk about but we sure did ok!!!
Maybe more importantly, has it ever been said in-universe that the original Flight 815 crashed on September 22?
Yes, this was confirmed in canon. Can't remember how exactly, but it was.
Good catch on the ultrasound date. At least we know we are really in 2004 there.
: ) P
I am watching again on ABC.com. What scene has the ultrasound date. I have watched the scene over and over again when they show the machine twice once far and once close up...no date anywhere....
Why was the ultrasound Oct 22, 2004? (10-24)
After the commercial Hammer. Right before detectives walk in.
Thanks. Okay now I've looked at that six times. I don't see the date...which part of picture is it on? Down by her right thumb I see 09 then her thumb covers the rest.
I clearly see O6 in the top right...kind of clever.
Should be top right corner. THird line down maybe.
It is the second line down. Here is a link to a screen shot.
http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/image/75afa122b3a07f870f669b75aa4ef2df
Well, I am looking at a recent ultra sound of mine from 2009. I am not sure here because there is only one date on CLaire's, but it may not be a mystery at all. October 22, 2004 might not be the date of the ultrasound. It may be her Due Date. That would make it two days before she is 36 weeks pregnant.
I see it now...black and white and very fuzzy on my monitor.
Can't figure what that means...it's not the day she was kidnapped...in fact the episode for that day are Des abd Sawyer centric....
Nice work Tasha, so maybe her thumb is covering the rest of 09/22/04?
I would think her thumb is covering the exact same thing as at the top but on a different ultra sound picture. They usually print out a couple of different angles. It says..
09: 29: 42 AM...I think. So it would seem like that is the time. I don't know for sure.
Ah...good point. So mystery not solved. I hope it's the due date because the plan landing on a day other than 9-22-04 would be a big monkey wrench to me.
First, thanks, Doc, for deconfusing me on the date question.
Second, I think the data on the first two lines of ultrasound is the time and the date of the snapshot. For record purposes, having only the time wouldn't be useful. That conclusion doesn't make me happy, btw.
8) Jim
It may be her Due Date. That would make it two days before she is 36 weeks pregnant.
That's what I was thinking. Aaron was born on the island on November 1st, 2004.
According to ABC, fifteen million people tuned in to the season premiere, bringing the ratings back up where they were in season one. After this week's episode, I doubt that many outside of the rabid few (like Tillies and Tibbies) will be tuning in.
I am sure there will turn out to be a greater purpose to the information we garnered from this episode, but I feel like they could have crammed a lot more information.
Overall, I don't mind a slower moving story within an episode, as long as there is some great character development. Other than an Emmy winning moment for Josh Holloway, I didn't feel it. So this episode is not in my top ten, but it is still a long way from the tattoo episode! LOL
: ) P
I am not getting anything done today.
This episode reminds me of Claire's psychic guy. I am about to go watch that season 1 episode again. What is the name of the episode where his daughter drowns and comes back to life? It was a Mr. Ecko episode right?
The episode called "?".
Kate assesses herself in a "mirror" then comes away, seemingly changed.
point: Just like Jack did last week.
Indeed. The change is subtle, but there does seem to be one.
: ) P
Interesting about the mirror...belly laughed at Cave Claire.
Oh...so THAT's what Kate 'does'...tells Claire she should keep the baby. (smirking)
Sounds like Damon is upset about the latest reviews of last nights episode. They also appeared to have LOST 3.5 million viewers from the week 1 premier.
Sounds like Damon is upset about the latest reviews of last nights episode. They also appeared to have LOST 3.5 million viewers from the week 1 premier.
Where did you see that at?
Part of my post on TBI:
Ultrasounds often do show the EDC (expected date of confinement), but they would ALWAYS show the date they were taken, so I am confused about it, especially because D&C will KNOW that we are all going to take screenshots and analyze them! My expectation is that we are supposed to be confused at this point.
: ) P
Damon tweeted something last night which can be found at darkufo.blogspot.com
I was wrong about the viewrship though, they only LOST a million viewers but still kicked the other shows butts.
Well, if he didn't want to lose viewers, he should have given them more answers and less questions. All of my friends that watch but are not as crazed as us complained last week that they were given more mysteries. Now this week it wasn't as thrilling as last week, so they are even more ticked. Me? I'm all in...I love the story no matter how they tell it...but average fans thought that the answers were gonna come flying.
Doc, I been doing my best to not have a sniffs bait moment. Last season and all...
None of my ultrasounds ever showed the due date...only the date and time it was taken, so that is a little confusing...Oct 22, 2004 makes perfect sense as a due date though, that would make her about 36 weeks like Dr. Ethan said, and a Nov 1, 2004 birth date would be completely normal...but this is LOST, so anything completely normal goes right out the window!
I agree with those that are hoping it's not a zombie season...too weird for me...but then again, the first time they "showed" Jacob there were some that thought they were adding ghosts and that didn't exactly happen to be true, so maybe a zombie prediction is a bit premature? Hopeful?
Gregg Nations, the Lost script coordinator, has supposedly said on thefuselage.com that the date on the ultrasound is a mistake. I don't have an account there and can't verify.
8) Jim
I think it's time for the producers to publish an official map of the Island; I don't think there's anything left to hide.
I also want to know when the novel will be published. There's gotta be one, right?
8) Jim
What will I ever do when LOST is over?
Overall, pretty disappointed with this episode. Told the husband that if I don't get at least 2 solid "answers" per each remaining episode, I'm going to be annoyed. I don't think that's too much to ask for since we're on a serious countdown here folks! I'm pretty much assuming that I'll really hate however they end it because that always happens with me and these kinds of shows (Life on Mars, The Prisoner, Angel, etc), but I just have to remember how much I really enjoyed the ride of the show and just not care as much about how they wrapped it all up.
And the whole zombie comment from Hurley just made me laugh because I feel like that's an inside joke for the podcast listeners. Just listened to the current podcast today and had forgotten how much "Damcar" amuse me.
Gregg Nations, the Lost script coordinator, has supposedly said on thefuselage.com that the date on the ultrasound is a mistake. I don't have an account there and can't verify.
I am a member. Must have signed up a long time ago, because I don't ever go there. However, I found this:
Meano Franko posted 2/10/10 at 12:03pm: http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/ima...669b75aa4ef2df
The date on the top right corner is 10-22-04. Prop error or hidden clue?
Gregg Nations posted 2/10/10 at 12:21pm:
Ah, it's a little combination of both. Two numbers are correct, and one number is a mistake. Can you guess which is which?
Meano Franko replied at 3:30pm:
If it's a mistake AND a clue then I would guess that 10 is a clue and '04 is a the mistake.
Gregg Nations replied no.
Meano Franko replied at 6:38pm:
Is the date supposed to be 10-22-06, a day before the Apollo Bar's expiration date? "Enjoy by 10/23/06"
Gregg Nations replied no again.
Here's the thing... these guys should *NOT* be making these kinds of mistakes. PERIOD.
: ) P
Just on cue, Bobola's back. For those no longer cruising TBI:
For me this was one of the worst episodes ever;
Jack is back to his rock head macho ways.
What sane person starts fighting with a bunch of armed Others with his bare hands? Is he trying to give them a reason to shoot them all?
And the dialogue with the Japanese guy;
“What’s that?
A Baseball.”
later;
“What is it?
Tea.”
Why didn’t JAck ask; where’s the Sushi?
Duh. WTF? Are the writers on strike again?
Whew…a thrill a minute.
And the show is seriously lacking a sense of humor.
Jack; And now I’m gonna be a complete idiot and take a pill that might kill me because….well, for no reason. Except the show needs more false drama.
It’s like the writers just checked out of the LOST Hotel.
And Claire the Airhead;
She’s preggers, get’s Jacked and robbed…and she doesn’t call the Police? Just waits around the streets for…Freckles to reappear. That stuffed tou has more sense.
The Hospitals Staff doesn’t notice a big gun sticking in the pants covered by a thin blouse? Right.
Then later she gives up her credit card??? WTF City.
And she can’t find an adoption family on her own Continent?
A better conclusion to the front door scene would be Freckles whipping out the gun on the crying bitch and say…empty the wallet and jewelry box you stupid cow…for leaving my Preggo friend in the lurch. I’ll give you something to cry about “Miss Can’t make a Goddamn Phone call”!
And even though the Others insist that everyone must be brought back to the compound…NO ONE asks why…and Freckles doesn’t even bother to remind Jin when he wants to split…or tell this possible vital info to Sawyer.
The Show is getting way dumb and I’m on the verge of stepping off…
I could write better scripts in my sleep.
The only scene I liked was when Aldo got clobbered.
I see Claire got a makeover on the Island…did she dig into a stash of Charlie’s? Her head looks like she got licked all over by a Polar Bear.
---------
Yeah, you called it, DocH!
: ) P
Just remembered a chuckle I had from the pop-up replay of LA X Part 2.
Dogen's translator's name was Lennon.
ROFLOL.
: ) P
Dogen's translator's name was Lennon
I thought that funny too PJ. I enjoyed the actor in Deadwood but not so much in The Perfect Storm or Eastbound and Down.
TBI = Grrrrr.
I may have to jump back to the big island next week if I have as much free time as I did this week. Is duke still the hall monitor?
He's there...hall monitor isn't MY description.
**THIS IS A JOKE**
Doc's predictions are eerily accurate (sniff's bait) any chance he is Duke?
LOL, LOL.
Now I have to ignore another jab (white knuckling).
Hey Tillies,
I invited Shelley, Shellonius Funk (now known as Bacon is my constant on TBI) to come by here. I have wanted to invite her (and a few others) for a while, but didn't want to make an announcement on TBI. She had a really good post (about people complaining about the episode) which reminded me. Anyway, I found her on FB and did it that way.
: ) P
Poached from an FB user:
"Why did the smoke monster cross the road?"
"To get to the other Sayid..."
Welcome Shellonius Bacon!
"Why did the smoke monster..."
Groan.
8) Jim
Man I hope epi 4 is a mind blower...epi 3 created too many grouches. Jeez.
The smoke monster joke made me smile at least. :)
How did the infection/darkness get into Sayid's body, anyway?
Maybe I have too much free time on my hands, but remember the six items young John Locke had to pick from, especially the baseball glove?
Young John picked the container of granules similar to the granules in the ring around the cabin. I've always maintained that the granules were symbolic of the ability to control Jacob, but I now think the creature being controlled was Jacob's adversary.
Young John picked the compass, which I think is symbolic of the compass on the Island that's bouncing back and forth between Richard and adult Locke.
Richard was happy up to this point; when John picked the knife, Richard became upset and left with all the items.
And remember Dogen's baseball? Are it and the glove related?
Where's Widmore?
8) Jim
I contend that when the spring water changed from clear to dark, it changed from Jacob to MIB. Jacob's infection (claim) gone, MIB's infection (claim) now present.
Thanks for the reminder about Locke and Richard's visit. Richard getting made about the knife makes some more sense since that's how Jacob died?
Hammer said...
Welcome Shellonius Bacon!
Thanks, Hambone!
You have entered the realm of one smart woman. How she found you on FB is beyond me. Shellonius Funk and Bacon is my constant don't even come up for me. LOL
I've been thinking about the whole good/evil, blac/white, Jacob/MIB thing and I looked up the conversation that took place between Claire and Locke in her dream in season 1, it went like this
CLAIRE: What's happening?
LOCKE: You know what's happening.
CLAIRE: But I don't understand. Why --?
LOCKE: He was your responsibility but you gave him away, Claire. Everyone pays the price now.
So, what about this possible new reality, if Claire keeps Aaron, perhaps that's the key to it all? Maybe that was Kate's redemption, to tell Claire to keep Aaron instead of him being "raised by another"?
You have entered the realm of one smart woman. How she found you on FB is beyond me. Shellonius Funk and Bacon is my constant don't even come up for me.
LOL, Hammer. Thanks for the compliment. I remembered that SF had some shirts of Cafe Press, but they didn't have contact info. I found SF on MySpace, but don't have an account there. So I put some words in the FB search and found her!
In the words of the almighty Hammer, welcome, Shellonius Bacon! LOL
: ) P
Thanks for the reminder Lins.
Doesn't it feel like Aaron is Jacob's replacment?
Yes, welcome, Shellonius Funk! (Does that mean I'm not the new kid any more?) *Big Grin*
Lindsay, I like the idea about Claire, Aaron and Kate. If true, maybe the sideways stuff is beginning to have meaning.
Hammer: Yes, the darkness entered through Sayid's wound when he was immersed in the cloudy water. Now, how did it get into Claire?
8) Jim
Welcome to the little island Shelley! You are now officially a "tillie". :)
Hammer said...
I contend that when the spring water changed from clear to dark, it changed from Jacob to MIB. Jacob's infection (claim) gone, MIB's infection (claim) now present.
So...since Dogen had an open cut, and submersed it in the "MIB" dark water, is he infected as well?
PJSander said..Here's the thing... these guys should *NOT* be making these kinds of mistakes. PERIOD.
I agree - we should be way past that at this point. It is a disappointment to me that they wouldn't be more careful. This stuff is confusing enough!
Miss Kim said...
I know that no one wants to hear me yap about zombies anymore but this is very interesting....
Thanks Miss Kim! that WAS very interesting. :)
Okay, my opinion is that the infection doesn't enter from the wound, but from the lungs during submersion. The timer seemed long enough to make sure the subject took in the water and 'died'. Clear water subjects were 'hand waive' tested immediately and would be alive. Dark water subjects seem to stay 'dead' longer. I say this because the French team infection...whether it was the team or just Danielle didn't have obvious wounds for entry. I would guess they/she became infected by inhaling.
Therefore, Dogen will not be claimed...he neither was in the dark water long enough...nor inhaled the water.
Yeah Doc, that was definately a lame attempt at humor. No bait to sniff. LOL
Oh, I also assume until shown that Claire was infected the same way as the French...we dunno.
Oh again.
The clear water powers appeared to work much faster than the dark water powers. Dogen dipped his hand expecting an immediate result and expected Sayid to be 'claimed' much faster than the dark water 'claimed' Sayid.
Oh again, again.
Safe to assume that at least in Dogen's stint at the temple, this is the first MIB infection via the water. He would have known that dark water = MIB infection and not even tried...no?
Yes, I like the infections via the lungs MUCH better tyhan my version. It also makes it easy to imagine there's another source of water on the Island that Claire was dunked into..., and that water source has overcome the one the spring depends on.
(I liked the line about RidX, too.)
Welcome friends from the Big Island! I am sure you will enjoy the little island. Our hostess/facilitator PJ does a wonderful job!
Hammer: Your dark waters theory is making me think. (Which I like to do!) Gonna think a little more before I speak or shall I say write...
I am on the fence about the waters. My thought is that the clear water was a healer and the dark water (which looked like sewage if you ask me) is an unknown - at least to the Dogen.
: ) P
I am wondering what Justin meant when he told Aldo (as Aldo was about to kill Jin) something like "wait, he's one of them!". One of the ones on the list from the ankh? He seemed to mean more than that.
DocH said...
My main question... how many "Sydney Airport" encounters were "undone"? It seems they made a real point in the first/second season to highlight all of the cross-connections at the airport.
And I don't know if this is relevant or not, but all of those connections happened before the flight took off, right? Now we're seeing the connections that happened after they landed
If you haven't already heard of it, Jorge and his girlfriend are doing podcasts!
http://geronimojacksbeard.blogspot.com/
What they did is record THEIR reactions to the scripts (back in the fall) as they read through them and after each episode, they are releasing the podcasts. Seriously funny - especially because they are clearly as confused as we are!
: ) P
New podcast is up at ABC.com. Video with not a lot of insight, but four minutes of Evie is enough to make me happy!
: ) P
Miss Kim can't seem to get her mobile device to post to TLI today, so I am passing this along on her behalf:
Do we know for sure that the skeletal remains found in the cave, "Adam & Eve", are one male and one female? Could it be "Adam & Adam"? If so....Icould it be...jacob and mib? That would be how it ends and the... timelines all become just one and all is well in the world....
Eve?
Jack said when they were found that one of the skeletons was female. Was he telling the truth? That was way back in season one. I don't think he was deep enough into the Island's mystique yet to have an agenda.
8) Jim
my first post! woot! thanks for the invite gang; glad to join such fine company.
i think they are male and female. I recently watched this one. Charlie says something like "i hope we don't end up like those guys." and jack says "actual one of them is female." and to this, locke says "ah...our very own adam & eve."
So it's not like a & e is a fan nickname; i think they have us believing they're male and female for a reason. also, jack put the stones back in the pouch, and the camera cut away before we can see what he did with them. It seems like my theory of who's in the cave is changing weekly at this point! for awhile i was certain that it was sun and jin and that sun would be the one whose xray's made her uterus appear to be that of a 70yr old woman. Not sure how i got all that, but there was more to it, and when that whole uterus xray came up, i immediately thought of adam and eve for some reason.
i can also see it being rose and bernard. but now i wouldn't be suprised if eve is juliet. or kate! gahh!
also, if eve had ever given birth, it is more obvious that she is female because i can remember in anthropology, we compared skeletons that were actual replicas. They female's pelvis was literally wide enough to fit a softball through; the teacher literally had a soft ball! i don't know if the female in this link has given birth, and i know those skeletons were very old/this may be a long shot, but i was giving jack the benefit of the doubt since he's a doctor.
maybe he dropped a softball too.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_giUlBEz2EQc/SENsahFObII/AAAAAAAAAB8/7XlmUVr4ess/s1600-h/pelvis2.gif
Lostpedia does not state as a fact that the remains in the cave are of a man and woman. Not sure why. Not sure if it matters. Just a whole lotta unsuredness going on tonight. Thanks for the help earlier PJ!!!
Miss Kim said...
Lostpedia does not state as a fact that the remains in the cave are of a man and woman.
Thanks for the observation. It's fixed.
8) Jim
There's one to two inches of white stuff in my yard. My cousin in Pennsylvania, who has two feet or more in his yard isn't impressed by my "plight."
The mayor of Atlanta said he would really be enjoying the snow, if he wasn't the mayor.
I'm about convinced that "What Kate Does" is to tell Claire to keep Aaron.
I know there are other options:
* She deserts Jack ("I'll always be with you."?).
* She deserts Sawyer.
* She deserts Jin.
...all in one afternoon.
For some reason, I'm attributing nobility of purpose to Kate.
Hmm...
Is it too early to talk about next weeks title?
8) Jim
I do sympathize with all who have to shovel snow. My last residence in snow country was in Maine in the seventies and I was an apartment dweller in those days; someone else shovelled for me. I have to think back to my youth for the agony.
Snow should be looked at through a picture window while standing near a fireplace holding a steaming mug of coffee.
Anyway, the next episode is "The Substitute."
Who/what is substituting for whom/what?
The Smoke needs to penetrate a place, such as the temple, and needs to replicate another dead person. Sawyer, Jin and Kate are loose and separated on the Island and are wanted back. Does who's being replicated impact on the effectiveness of the ash? Are we about to lose one of our star characters? Not the star, of course, because the star will just be portraying The Smoke.
Jin is now "in custody" of Claire, maybe; I'm not sure yet if that's good or bad. There's chatter on the LP that Claire is the new Rousseau and that Rousseau was really The Smoke, the "real Rousseau" having died years ago, as in more than three.
I don't follow the "externals" a lot. Did Terry O'Quinn know that he was portraying a different character from Hydra onward?
Does The Smoke have to come from some point of origin, like some container?
8) Jim
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