Today marks the second anniversary of the day we created the little island! It feels like much longer than that! How far we've come! Think of it... two years ago, Charlie died, and I stayed in denial for almost two years. LOL.
Happy Birthday, Tillies!
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58 comments:
I thought the Little Island had been around longer! Congrats to all for making it work. Most of the blogs I've seen on the Web seem to ramble off into unrelated -- not to mention vulgar -- territory. It has always been a pleasure to blog with the genteel.
8) Jim
Woot! I know I'm new here, but I was welcomed after spending years on The Lost Blog...and I was really only reading that one to read all of you guys' thoughts! (haven't been back there much since!)
The answer to why there isn't more [copulation] on the Island is that there was; we just didn't see it. I thought I had read or heard recently that Lost was originally pitched to HBO, but it turned out I was thinking about FlashForward (which dies tomorrow night). I can imagine what J.J. Abrams could have "accomplished" on HBO.
8) Jim
I love the way they included all religions in the stained glass window
PJ, do you have a screencap of this? I'd love to see it.
the window:
http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season6/theend3/the-end1573.jpg
Thanks Shelley.
PJ: "donkeywheelism" LOL
This is silly, but can't help but pass it along:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-DShnvNNv0&feature=player_embedded
: ) P
I am like Shelly. Spent years over at TBI but was mostly there for a small group of readers. Some are still there. There are just so many comments and so much drama. Besides I feel ignored over there LOL. Seemed like only person who talked to me was always chewing me out (DUKE.) Maybe it's because I never have well thought out theories. I was always so into the show because of the mythology and philosophy of it all. Thanks for letting me come over here:)
I noticed the window too, I remember thinking "what on earth kind of church is this!!" At first I thought it was the one where Eloise told them all how to go back to the island...but it was neat that they showed most/all of the religions that have seemed to influence the show.
And I'll admit, I haven't been to TBI at all this year, it got annoying and like Shelley said, I really only read your comments on there anyway!
Thanks again for such a friendly little island PJ!!
From the last thread:
Tasha: If it was only from Jack's perspective, then how about when Desmond went to visit Eloise? Or Sun and Jin having their ultrasound? Or Desmond running over Locke? Many are saying Hurley had it all planned out and this was his world, but he had to remember too. If anything, Libby set that up. Jack wasn't there for every FSW scene. I thought I had all this figured out but it can't just be from Jack's point of view. I take it as everyone was already dead, but the only one I can't figure out is Jack's son.
The way I see it, Tasha, is that the FSW is a collective experience, but the "moving on" or the part that was in the church was Jack's individual perspective of the experience.
As for David, I think he was just there for the audience, but you can connect David to Jack's need to resolve his own father issues.
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Agreed PJ, they used Jack's experience to wrap it up neatly. Jack's eye opened, everything happened in between, Jack saved the island Jack's eye closed.
As for David, I think he was just there for the audience, but you can connect David to Jack's need to resolve his own father issues.
That is what I was sort of thinking about Alex. That maybe she is there for Ben's experience. We never saw her "remember." I think Ben remembered and now he wants her too and that is his unfinished business. Not sure if Alex remembering would be a good idea though. Too bad Carl didn't show up as her FSW boyfriend:)
Since watching the finale, I have had the story, "The Five People You Meet in Heaven" by Mitch Albom stuck in my mind. It was one of my all time favorite books. Themes from this story include:
*There are no random acts in life
*Lives are sacrificed to save others
*Forgiveness and Letting go of Anger
*The Power of Love
There are other subtle similarities as well. Did anyone else read this? Did you notice the similarities?
I have never seen Star Wars. That being said, a friend of mine compared LOST to what the heart of Star Wars is all about. Apparently, it can be summed up that Star Wars was a story about a man named Darth Vader. That was surprising to me--I would have thought it was about lots of other things and people. He asserted that LOST was a story about a man named Jack Shepard. While I like this theory--and it certainly appears that way at first--the whole eye thing....I don't think it is. There are too many things that occur that Jack is not part of, that Jack was not directly related to, that frankly shouldn't be in a story about Jack Shepard. So Star Wars fans--what's your take on my friend's thoughts?
Aside from my reading/sleep issue, I wouldn't read Mitch Albom if he were the last author on earth. He writes for the Free Press here in Detroit and had been caught several times fabricating news stories...still can't believe he has a job at the Freep still. Sheep here in Detroit listen to his radio drivel too.
I digress, sorry Miss Kim, can't relate. :)
I read the book, Miss Kim, but don't really remember it. Guess that means it didn't have a big impact on me. LOL
I've seen in various places that people are questioning the island's being sunk in the FSW. Now that we know that the FSW is that "holding place" idea, I think the underwater island suggests that the island doesn't matter in the FSW. I'm not quite sure, still wrapping my head around it.
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Maybe it's been sunk in the FSW because it is not remembered by anyone until that certain magical moment of awakening when they do remember....
Hammer: Not my favorite author-it's the only book he wrote that I read, never heard him talk, didn't see the movie.....but the story was good. Basically it's about a man named Eddie. When he dies he meets five random people he had encountered when he was living. Each is waiting in their own "heaven" for him. For example, one person is waiting for him in a "heaven" made up completely of wedding ceremonies and receptions. This, for her, was heaven. Each let him know how their lives had intersected and basically teach him a little lesson. After he meets the five people-boom! He gets to go to his own special heaven place and be one of somebody else's five people. Nice story actually.
part 2 of Jensen's EW recap.
it touches on why the island is sunken.
I agree with most everything he said except that I believe that the bomb DID go off (enough to move them through time). Otherwise, there would have been no need to have all of them deafened from the blast if it was time travel alone.
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20313460_20388269,00.html
"The Five People You Meet in Heaven"
It was a good book. Not my usual fare, but still good; the TV movie was a good adaptation in the sense that the writers didn't try to "improve" the story.
A good story needs a protagonist. Sometimes the protagonist may be a hero. Jack was definitely the protagonist and a reluctant hero. Cincinnatus?
Lost was, I think, told in Third-person, objective (check Wikipedia). The narrator (in our case, the camera) sees everything, but knows nothing about the thoughts of the characters.
8) Jim
I don't doubt he's a fictional writer since he does a good job of fictionalizing in his column. Heh.
I won't read him on principle.
Back to the sunken island. I WANT to believe that it was shown to us to let us know that it was a result of the detonator. Mostly because they showed us the DHARMA camp.
Thought i would share..saw it on FB...
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20313460_20387946,00.html
Than ks for the link, Tasha. I copied the text to the file on my machine so I can read it at leisure. I like a lot of the analysis.
8) Jim
LOL. I was just coming here to share that link, Tasha!
Great article. Terribly long, but so worth it. In Part 2, I was mildly overwhelmed by page 4, where Doc Jensen describes things in a way that is so similar to what we've been discussing.
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2 years have gone by so fast.
My brother told me today that the LOST creators were not responsible for the ending credit scene with the 3 sections of plane, that was ABC's doing.
Flashforward is dead? I guess I can erase them off my DVR. I was looking forward to watching them this summer.
I have not read the book by Mitch A Bum but I have to agree with Hammer. I remember watching him on early Sunday morning ESPN and really didn't like him.
As for the church, I am Catholic and that is where we attend services, weddings and funerals included. I like how all religions were included in the artwork. I think it is fitting for the LOST casket of a man named Christian to be delivered to a church, JMO. Wasn't the service for CS after the rescue in a church?
Yes, Flashforward was not picked up for another season. It started strong, but began to crash when it was put up against the World Series(?). Then they put it on that hiatus and (maybe) retooled it. It came back with combined episodes 11 & 12, which I liked, and I also liked what came afterward. Tonight is the period of time that everyone saw during their blackouts and more that I don't want to spoil for those who are not up to date.
I dropped a note on SyFy's feedback that they should pick up the show, but it's doubtful. David Goyer, the showrunner, is leaving for movies and the cast will probably scatter. It you watch through tonight's episode, you'll get "a" complete story. But, conceptually, there is so much more.
8) Jim
Man it's hard to read TBI.
I've come to the conclusion that MOST people who didn't like the ending also don't understand it.
...I've also found WAY too many people that think they all died in the crash AND YET THEY STILL LOVED THE ENDING!!!?!?!?!!
Hammer: agreed.
Shelley: weird, right?
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People around the 'net have been talking about David and how he throws a wrench into the FSW. (I never heard Locke tell Jack he didn't have a son, but I don't think that matters.) I have a different opinion.
Realistically, the FSW didn't have a time period that made sense, which was a clue to the fact that it was "Sixth Sensey" except that we didn't have all the details.
In Charlie's realm of the FSW, he got arrested, ran Desmond's car into the water, went to hospital, was released, got drunk, was picked up by Hurley and taken to the concert THAT DAY.
In Locke's realm of the FSW, he got off the plane, was fired from his job, got a new job, spent at least two days (and what appeared to be quite a few more) teaching, was run down by Desmond, went to the hospital, was fixed by Jack (who then went to Bernard to get into, and then looked in on Anthony Cooper and then convinced Locke to...), have another surgery, recovered, was released and went to the "church" the same night as the concert (which was ostensibly the day they got off the plane).
IMO, this is why Christian said that time doesn't exist, that there is no "now" because it doesn't apply. This relates to a theory that time is not future or past, it just is.
IMO David existed as part of the FSW, but wasn't part of Jack's REAL life, the life he lead before he went to the "holding place" that some are referring to as purgatory. He played a role in allowing Jack to heal his father issues so that Jack could eventually "move on" to wherever. So when Jack got to the "church" and was with Kate, and Sawyer was with Juliet, they weren't abandoning David, they were leaving their "holding place" lives and returning to the real loves they had from the island.
As such, IMO, Aaron wasn't abandoned because in AARON'S real life, Claire came home on that Ajira flight and lived (ostensibly) happily ever after with his mum, grandmum and "auntie" Kate. Claire and Charlie, OTOH, eventually got to live through the missing infant years of baby Aaron in their collective FSW, which occurred some time after Claire's death - which may not happen until 2070.
Ji Yeon WAS an orphan because in HER real life, her parents died.
That is the way I am muddling through it all in my head.
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PJ, I agree, I think David was a part of Jack's path to reconciliation with the life he led that was so full of "daddy-issues", raising a son and working through problems to have a good relationship was something he had never experienced and doing that with David satisfied a need for him. I think it's like Locke told him in the hospital "you don't have a son", well he didn't...not in real life, but in this FSW life, David was necessary for Jack to let go of his dad issues.
PJ: That is the way I am muddling through it all in my head
Great explanation of the FSW ( is it still called that ? ). What about Claire and her FSW adventure, not to mention Sayid's, Hurley's or Sun and Jin's? TIME is all relative.
Locke told Jack he didn't have a son in the FSW after Locke wiggled his toes and Jack had his first memory flash.
PJ, as usual, I think you've summed it up well.
I found this on someone's blog and it is reminds me of my theory so I thought I would share,
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Josiah_Rowe/%22The_End%22,_Nirvana_and_%22The_Last_Battle%22
Also, reading so much on TBI about the island being REAL or FSW being REAL is starting to get to me. I know a lot of you are arguing against them, but this is how I feel about it all.
What is REAL can also be questioned like TIME. What exactly is REAL? So Jack's dad said that everything that happened on the island is REAL, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are alive, so I am kind of in a camp now where people can believe what they want. My husband pointed out to me about what we have learned about things being real. In a way, even if they all did die in the crash, doesn't mean that the island and everything that happened isn't real. There is no real basis for reality and something being real is not absolute. My reality may not be the same as your reality. Idealists for instance, hold that reality consists of minds and their ideas. George Berkley believed that that the conscious mind and its ideas and perceptions are the only reality. There is a school of thought called Phenomenology that says that being is the underlying reality that appears to our consciousness. Tie that into religions and what we believe about our conscious and it can get confusing with no answers.
One of the greatest reasons I loved this show is because in my interpretation, it is largely based on Philosophy. It's the activity of critically and carefully examining the reasons behind the most fundamental assumptions of our human lives. Examples..
What is Real?
Is there a God?
What is truth?
Why are we here?
What happens when we die?
(and more of the basic concerns of human existence.)
In Plato's Myth of the Cave, which I am sure most of you have heard or read about, he describe's philosophy as breaking free of the chains and climbing from the dark cave (ignorance) into the light(Wisdom.) It's a great story if anyone wants to look it up or watch the funny versions on youtube.
The problem with philosophy is that there are no real answers. There are no facts in philosophy. All there are a whole bunch of arguments on different subjects that we as humans do not have the answer to. The goal is to reach autonomy, the freedom of being able to decide for yourself what you will believe in, using your own reasoning, culture, language, and so on.
Sorry to be rambling on, but the way I see it, the writers knew what they were doing all along. This is a show about people...YES. It is also a show that makes everyone that watches question some of their beliefs. Depending on where you stand with many of those beliefs, you interpret it differently. The way I saw it, everything was real that happened, but I am not saying that it is the same "real" as many others would define it as. I am also not saying that they didn't "die" literally in the plane crash. I have no answer to that, and I don't think it matters. So even for the people that think that they died in the plane crash originally, it doesn't necessarily mean it was all a dream or flash before anyone's eyes. All of it still happened, but maybe not in the way most people would believe it. It all depends on where people stand on the "what is real" argument. The same as the end. Where they went next depends on where you stand in "Is there a God?" argument.
I don't think any real answer matters. In the end, I watched a show for 6 years I was totally drawn into that had a bitter sweet ending, and although I didn't get all the answers I wanted, I am pretty sure that was the whole point. Philosophy begins with WONDER and QUESTION, and that is exactly what this show brought into my life.
JMO LOL
I know the shots during the credits weren't put in by the producers, but I still think it's significant that ABC chose to leave us with wreckage that is VERY weathered (not new), foot steps all around it, and a tarp/tent in the background. So I don't think they died in the crash.
But Tasha, your argument is still valid, even if I don't agree. That's what's wonderful about this show, and it's also about of its legacy.
One thing I do agree with is that even though the FSW happened outside of their lives, it's just as "real" to them as being alive was. We don't know WHAT goes on after we die, and I'm sure that whatever MAY happen then will feel real to us.
Speaking of the FSW, Sawyer says at one point during the show, "that's a hell of a long con, Jack." and that's exactly what I consider the FSW at this point.
Tasha: What exactly is REAL
As defined by Webster:
1.of or relating to fixed, permanent, or immovable things (as lands or tenements)
2a. not artificial, fraudulent, or illusory
2b. occurring or existing in actuality
REALITY:
1.the quality or state of being real
2.a real event, entity, or state of affairs
b. : the totality of real things and events
After reviewing these definitions I have come to the conclusion that the island WAS real and they were physically alive on it, just as CS explained it. I also believe the nuclear bomb Jack set off is part of WHH, the bomb always exploded, hence The Incident.
Anyone have any theories about why the mirror Sawyer looked into was broken?
Well I am not saying that I think they died in the crash, I just see where some people are arguing it. My husband is going with the idea that when Jack felt the turbulence on the plane, he died, or his physical body died. Then he goes into the whole rebirth thing with your consciousness. He got that from his Lost talk show he listens to here in the DFW area. I don't ever hear it because I am at home and don't listen to the radio. If you argue with him about what Christian says, he says that everything that happened is still real even if they did die, and when Shepherd said they all died at some point, he throws in Desmond and Penny who weren't on the flight. He never says specifically who died and when, which might be part of why the writers threw them in there. Maybe Desmond died before or after. He never gives specific names. So here my husband and I view it all differently and interpret what we saw and heard differently. He has a lot of good arguments too going back thru the series. None of it has anything to do with the credits at the end. I am ready to watch it all again with my view on it all. Although my husband now says he is closing this chapter in his life and for me not to talk about it anymore. I wish a legit summary would come from somewhere. Not just a viewer, but I wish LOST would put out a press release to answer some of the questions people still have. I kind of like it this way though(no real explanation). It makes it A LOT more interesting because I think LOST is living out it's legacy.
After reviewing these definitions I have come to the conclusion that the island WAS real and they were physically alive on it, just as CS explained it.
I am not trying to argue about what is real and what is not. That is why I wrote what I wrote. What makes their flashbacks any more real than their time on the island? Even the FSWs are REAL. Shepherd said that everything that ever happened to Jack was real, he also said that they both were very real and and yet they were both dead. I just think that many people are interpreting it all very differently:)
L4E: Anyone have any theories about why the mirror Sawyer looked into was broken?
Didn't Sawyer BREAK that mirror in a previous episode?
There were a number of reflections that weren't in a 'regular' mirror. I think Ben's was in a microwave (shout out to the Hot Pocket moment), Sayid's was in Nadia's front door (and it was in the script that he notices his reflection), Jin's was the door of the freezer, Desmond's was a the screen at the airport.
I don't know if it is significant or not that Sawyer's mirror was broken, except maybe that he broke it?
: ) P
Sawyer's mirror
Sawyer broke the mirror after his time with Charlotte went bad and Miles told him he wasn't going to be his partner any more.
8) Jim
I just think that many people are interpreting it all very differently:)
Exactly and I was just explaining the way I see it.
Thanks for the info about the mirror, I had forgotten that.
I know that D&C (likely) don't have anything to do with LOST Untangled (and I really haven't enjoyed them much), but I came across this one, which says that the passengers on the final Ajira flight DID survive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRZ7PnitoSc
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Here is next seasons big sci-fi destination - Terra Nova
http://www.slashfilm.com/2010/05/27/fringejourneyman-director-hired-for-spielbergs-terra-nova
I guess Spielberg is out of (good) movie ideas.
Great article: http://content.usatoday.com/communities/popcandy/post/2010/05/lost-in-a-flash-your-top-comments-about-the-series-finale/1
Best line:
Oh, now I get it. Sideways world is Facebook. A place we make to reconnect.
: ) P
I guess Spielberg is out of (good) movie ideas.
He may have run out when he made A.I. He has had more flops this millenium then hits. I did like Minority Report ( even though Tom Snooze was in it ), Catch me if You, and Munich. The Terminal, War of the Worlds and Indiana Jones were extremely disappointing for me. Unfortunately I hear he is making another INDY movie. Band of Brothers was one of the greatest mini-series ever and the Pacific may have been one of the worst, JMO.
Phew:
http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/05/26/lost-final-scenes-wreckage/
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So my brother was right. No good dirty ABC execs...:)
Loved the enhanced Finale tonight (Sat). First, They loped 25 minutes of commercials off of the 150 minutes. Kimmel followed immediately. The 'enhanced' ran for all, except the last 20 minutes. The description (enhanced) told everything except the end tale.
Final (sniff sniff) Ack Attack is up in three parts:
http://www.theackattack.net/?p=2007
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Terra Nova!?
Is this our next great adventure?
http://www.fox.com/programming/shows/?sh=terra-nova
I think it interesting to note that:
* On the Web page they spell the mother of the family's name two different ways.
* That the series has ten -- count 'em -- executive producers. How does anyone know who's really in charge? I guess it's a Hollywood thing.
* We're back into causality again. If I go back in time and kill the T Rex that was going to eat my pet stegosaurus...
Oh, is there anything worth watching?
8( Jim
DocH said...
The family dynamic reads a little like "Lost In Space"
Shiver! I hadn't thought of that angle. I absolutely despised LiS when it was on TV all those years ago and did NOT see the movie.
I was pondering starting a Terra Nova wiki since things are kinda slow otherwise, but there's plenty of time.
SyFy is currently show a marathon of "The Stand," which I'm recording to watch over the next week or so. It's close to the book.
8) Jim
Watched it again tonight...I think the conversations between Kate and Desmond really explained things...once you've seen it and know what happens, to hear them talk about "leaving"...makes sense to me :)
I watched "The Stand" and realized that Bernard -- well, Sam Anderson -- was in a supporting role.
The LP is mostly quiet. Some people decided that FSW should be renamed "afterlife." One of the senior admins changed all the refs back.
I think the phenomenon is about over...
8) Jim
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