Whatever will be, will be
The future's not ours, to see
Que Sera, Sera
Okay, so "what happened happened" isn't REALLY part of the lyrics to Que Sera, Sera but that is what I think of every time I hear those words. Still, if you think about it, if what happened really *is* what happened, doesn't that mean that whatever will be, really will be? What I mean to say is, I think that until true time travel is discovered, we must accept the past as the truth (within the confines of historical documentation). But is destiny already determined? Will "whatever" truly be whatever?
Confused? Me, too. There comes a time in LOSTlore when we have to accept what we see, and have seen, as truth (as it relates to the LOST world) even if we can't really wrap our brains around it. I have a lot, possibly too much, faith in Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse that there will be, ultimately, a completely satisfying ending. An ending wherein we will have time travel explained in a way that makes perfect sense, not only to us, the über-fans, but also to the casual viewer. Hopefully tonight will be the next piece in the time travel puzzle.
: ) P
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348 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 348 of 348Tasha said...
The fence is pretty high tech for the times. It would not have been easy to build either. I wonder how they kept Smokey away while they were in the process of building it.
Don't ask hard questions! (grin)
Good point, Tasha. The Others had to agree to the construction of everything on the Island: Barracks, stations, tunnels(?) and the fence. All of this required a lot of heavy equipment we have not seen. You can't -- well, you can -- bury a station the size of the Swan with picks and shovels. The Others had to acquiesce. They "turned off" Smokey?
8) Jim
Okay, so Dharma put up the fence without the hostiles permission, DocH? It seems to me, the hostiles run the island.
PJ: What if Alpert was the one who orchestrated the purge, and had Ben carry it out as his initiation, just as Locke had to kill his father to prove himself?
Not sure if is Alpert or the leader(s), but that's pretty much the way I saw it, an initiation. And I agree JIG, especially after the last episode, Alpert is a superior to whomever calls themself the island "leader". I can't wait to see his superior.
OOPS! I forgot about page 2. I am in agreement JIG, the Others had to agree on the construction.
Okay, something you've been talking about on TBI has me thinking about Juliet.
Whether or not there are two groups of Others, and now I am beginning to agree that there is only one, though they possibly serve different functions, maybe Juliet is like an Alpert Other?
Maybe the whole "recruit" Juliet thing was a ruse... maybe she's been around as long as Alpert. Maybe that statue *is* Juliet?
I know it seems like a long shot, but well there it is.
: ) P
If Benboy will "always be one of us" - an Other, then presumably Widmore and Hawking are too - always an Other. Otherness is then more than just geography. So, why do SOME Others live off island? Were they ALL banished (via FDW for example), or are some working on off-island assignment, as suggested by Benman? Because if they are on assignment, then they must have the ability to return. If they can, then Widmore and other banished Others should know HOW this is done. Finding the island and a route back shouldn't be so very difficult.
Plus, the whole "latin" thing from when they were in 1954 didn't sit with me. We NEVER saw the 2004 Others speaking latin. And I certainly don't think there really was an Other 101 class where they learned it!
: ) P
Well PJ, if Juliet is an "Alpert" Other, and has always "been" - she didn't seem to know it. She REALLY seemed to want to go HOME. Didn't seem to see herself as a permanent islander.
We haven't heard any other "old" Others speak Latin either. It seems to be a "private" language, for use in special circumstances (like capture :)
My bigger beef is that the Others speak English! Why would they? If they have been there "forever" or however long, and especially with the Egyptian references, it seems English would NOT be the language of choice!
I don't think Juliet has always been an Other. They wouldn't have had to stage her ex's death and lie about who they were, etc.
She would have recognized Alpert from go, no?
So us viewers in the USA can understand RITA! LOL. Come on now...this isn't Dharma science! Hahaha J/k. Excellent question though.
I was going to start THIS paragraph with my opinion on why they speak English and realized I don't have one. It must be so we can understand it like I already said. Anyone else???
Well if Julliete's an other than so is Jack I think cause his dad must have been an Other!
As well as being "One of Us", Juliet is also "The Other Woman".
...Latin...
I put a UAQ on the Others page at the LP about them actually speaking Latin and got slammed by the power users. (sigh) A least one opinion was, "They were speaking English on TV."
No help there...
8) Jim
Hammer: She would have recognized Alpert from go, no?
Unless she had a date with smokey, or whatever Alpert was referring to, and LOST her memory. I am very anxious to find out what, exactly, ben won't remember. But, I do not believe she was an original inhabitant, you never know though, right?
Yeah, I guess if she were an Alpert Other, she wouldn't have had a sister in the States, huh. I was thinking that maybe she left the island to do some work off island, and was "recruited" to bring her back. But nah...
I like that statue as the back of Juliet, though. I am telling you...
*g*
: ) P
Well adoption plays in around here. Juliet or her sister could have been adopted.
I hate to ask this again, but it isn't working for me, how do you do italics??
[i] for italics[/i]
Just replace the SQUARE brackets with the less than < and greater than > brackets (found above the comma and the period).
: ) P
Tasha, I had to learn this too! (thanks again PJ for teaching me :)
for italics, you have to put in a less-than sign (arrow pointing left), i, greater than sign (arrow pointing right) in front of your quote. Then to end, put in a less than sign, /, i, greater than sign. It looks like the examples you see right under the box, above "choose an identity" when you post here. The less-than/ greater-than arrows are above the comma and period keys.
Ben told Locke that he had to kill his father to prove himself. We already know Ben lies. Alpert gave Locke a out by letting him know he could get Sawyer (James) to kill Sawyer (Lockes dad).
I think Bens dad was to die in the purge with the rest but Alpert "let" Ben do it on his own because Roger was so awfull to Ben. I think Ben wanted to get Locke to kill his father to prove that he was "no better than Ben". Richard was pleased that Locke didn't want to kill him so gave him the out.
PJSander said...
[i] for italics[/i]
Just replace the SQUARE brackets with the less than < and greater than > brackets (found above the comma and the period).
If this works...THX! I was forgetting the /.
DocH: Natives are slow to react.
That would seem to be a little out of character for them.
Widmore, aware of the ins-and-outs of the island, knows exactly where to go to exploit its features. Humble baby DHARMA shows up on the islands door-step one day and pulls its best illegal alien impersonation and goes - "ummm... we're a simple scientific expedition and we are just here to see the statue." FOOOM - toehold on the island.
Now we know why the statue only has four toes left.
Ellie and Charles
There's that little exchange between Eric(?) and Richard about approval from Charles and Ellie. I came away from that with the thought that Ellie was higher in the food chain than Charles.
I had been wondering about that all season. We have to assume that Ellie becomes Eloise. If Charles wants back on the Island so bad that he can taste it and Eloise knows how to do that, why doesn't he go and force her to let him make the trip? The answer -- maybe -- is that Eloise the shopkeeper is above Charles the billion-pound industrialist in the heirarchy. Something -- fear? -- keeps Charles away from Eloise.
I'm back in my "teleportation mode" again, but there has to be some kind of direct access between the Island and the Exterior (still looking for a good name) that doesn't involve puking in the Tunisian desert. It only works if Ms. Hawking knows where the Island is and a bi-product of the successful arrival of Flight 316 is that knowledge.
A passing question that is probably not on the to be answered list is: If that's a real Catholic Church sitting on top of the Lamp Post Station, does the Archbishop of Los Angeles know what's going on in his basement? (grin)
8) Jim
"Geriatric Park?"
Mooaaaan!
DocH said...
I see DHARMA...final chapter in the saga
I like that. I'm reminded of the t-shirts picturing the American Indian "Department of Homeland Security."
8) Jim
JIG: There's that little exchange between Eric(?) and Richard about approval from Charles and Ellie. I came away from that with the thought that Ellie was higher in the food chain than Charles
At first, that's what I thought. But I have been thinking about 2 other possibilities.
1. Ellie is actually on the island and Charles is not. So Eric(?)would ask abot the one that is there.
2. Ellie is the leader of one faction, either Dharma or the hostiles, and Widmore is the leader of the other faction. Ellie vs. Widmore. Maybe Eric(?) thought Richard should check with leaders of BOTH sides b4 converting someone from one side to the other.
Lost4ever said:
At first, that's what I thought. But I have been thinking about 2 other possibilities.
...
Yeah, I hadn't thought about the, roughly, "What will Charles think? Did you check with Ellie?" part.
Dunno.
8) Jim
Idol observation: there are now more posts (432) on TBI than there were at the end of the week on HOY (431). Just sayin....
re TBI
Sniff and swim, Hammer. Sniff and swim! *bg*
: ) P
I'm not going to keep eating the bait. Sometimes, you just gotta say what your thinking....ya know.
from TBI
CM said: This could also explain how Juliette can speak Latin, shoot a gun and is so good at hand to hand combat. All unusual for a fertility Doctor. Each other keeps it’s current skills and gains the skills and personality of the current body they are living in.
Well that would go with my Juliet is an Alpert Other theory, eh?
I like it.
: ) P
That made me think of how their policy is to kill each other when they get caught by an enemy. Maybe their ’souls’ go back to the temple and wait for a new assignment?
Maybe.
Might explain why Ben was so upset when Alex killed Keamy... maybe she hadn't been assimilated yet.
That would tie in with the don't bury the bodies thing, too.
: ) P
Oh wait, duke said that is not a policy...can't be then.
Hammer, I'm really proud of you! Such admirable restraint. Don't bite the bait - it's just death if you do! :)
PJSander said...
Maybe.
Might explain why Ben was so upset when Alex killed Keamy... maybe she hadn't been assimilated yet.
That would tie in with the don't bury the bodies thing, too.
If you die and are buried, you're dead forever (I hope; I don't want to see Nikki and Paulo again and Shannon was a real pain in the...neck.) In 1954, the Others buried the dead soldiers.
If you die and are left on the ground the Island absorbs you if it wants you (Goodwin was not wanted) and you are reborn (at the Temple?). Karl and Rousseau -- and maybe Alex -- were "on their way." Ben taking time to mourn his daughter was an act.
What does this tell us about the "Viking" funeral of Colleen Picket?
8) Jim
Jim, I'm hoping that Dead is Dead will address this very thing.
Rita said...
Jim, I'm hoping that Dead is Dead will address this very thing.
I hope so, too. Of course I was sure that they couldn't do WHH without Daniel and that we would have found out how the Black Rock ended up in the jungle by now. I have great theories, but none of them turn out to be right!
8) Jim
Sun killed Colleen in the boat and she was burried at sea.
May I do it again? I read the following story a couple of years ago. I've been trying to track it down for a week. I finally remembered the search terms to take me to the page that linked to the page.... You get the idea.
This one is just under 3000 words. For your enjoyment: The Perpetual Barbecue
http://www.mjyoung.net/time/barbecue.html
8) Jim
Jim, I read the story. It reminds me more of Groundhogs day than Lost.
In lost the world moves on from day to day but our losties can travel to different times. In Groundhogs day the world keeps rebooting to the begining of the day. Everything and everyone moves toghether and there is no tomorrow. No one can move into the future because there isn't one to move to.
So I guess what I am saying is that our charactors timelines are looping but time itself is liniar in the Lost world.
So what about this for a notion about the temple? Maybe it's some kind of Doctor Who / Time Lord issue, like only Time Lords can look into the heart of the Tardis because they're the only ones that can handle it and when a regular person does, it can drive them mad. Maybe the temple could be the same sort of thing where only "special" people can absorb its secrets and it still kind of drives them crazy.
Wow. Referencing Doctor Who while on a Lost blog. 1 ticket for entrance into extreme geekdom, please. :)
I'm still trying to get a handle on personalities over on TBI. Do "enuff" (comment 536)and "'nuff" mean leah?
8) Jim
Good question Jim. Seems like it.
Rita on TBI:
If Jack had gone to the house, he might have grabbed something else, not shoes. He was told to bring something that had belonged to Christian. The fact that G-pa had the SHOES was significant because Jack had given his dad old beat up white shoes for the coffin - it was important that he make amends with SHOES. They most likely played it this way to make sure he took the SHOES.
++++++++++++
I guess, but I think they could have had him just grap a shoes at his mom's place....Ray IMO is going to be seen again.
Hello! Long time lurker here… I love reading everything that you all have to say over at lost blog every week (my favorite procrastination spot). I never get to post because I’m in grad school and very busy! I usually record LOST when it airs, then watch it whenever I have time. Then I read the posts, and I’m usually a few weeks behind everyone else! But this week I’ve actually caught up!!! I love all of your theories and “TBI” is a little intimidating right now, so I hope you don’t mind if I join the party over here!
Anyways, something that really caught me in WHH that I don’t think has been mentioned is that last bit of the episode where Richard Alpert is carrying Ben away to be healed. Am I correct in recognizing the building they go to as the Smokey lair that Montand gets dragged into? For a brief second I thought that Richard was going to disappear into a puff of smoke! LOL. But it did get me thinking about the whole “who/what is Richard Alpert” question. Here’s some stuff I’ve been thinking about regarding Richard:
*Walks up to Smokey’s lair without fear
*Goes into Smokey’s lair without going nuts a la Rousseau’s pals
*The sonic fence does not keep him out
*Does not to age
*Appears to be in charge (or at least outranks Widmore) in 1954
*Does not “answer to” Ellie or Charles in 1977
*Is kind of a rogue Other under Ben’s leadership in 2004
*Is usually very clean-cut, but looks like a shaggy pirate when he first meets Ben and is unshaven at the end of WHH
*Can move back and forth between the island and the rest of the world
So what does all this stuff mean? I personally find Richard to be the most fascinating character on LOST right now. Feel free to correct anything I’ve said, add to it, or offer me your opinions!
Sheesh! Sorry for the long post. I also noticed something else as I was rewatching the end of WHH. Did anyone else see Richard carrying Ben past what looked like a big pit, like the one where all the Dharma bodies end up after the purge?
Yes, I agree. He will be important at some point. Jack went to see Ray though, over something else. It was the fact that he was shown his dad's shoes, however, and knowing their significance (to him), that moved Jack a step closer to being a believer. If he had just stopped by his mom's house and coincidently grabbed the shoes, he wouldn't have been presented with a "faith moment" (don't know what else to call it!). He wasn't yet totally buying into Ben's/Locke's "stuff" before going to the nursing home.
DocH said...
...
I am not saying they did not get quicker.
Concur.
They learn and adapt fast. In '54 they bows and arrows and WW II/ Korean War armament. That's one monster of a technology leap. No flintlocks or Springfields.
Next stop: AK-47s!
8) Jim
Hmmm... That's "they had"
8) Jim
My last post was in response to Hammer :)
Welcome KatetheGreat! Glad to see you coming out of lurking. I think everyone is wondering about Richard right now. Ancient being, future time traveler, alien, who knows? I hope they reveal something soon!
I don't think wingman and leah are the same.
: ) P
Welcome to TLI, KateTheGreat!
Richard is definitely interesting. The only thing that makes me think that he isn't necessarily THE person to watch is that Nestor Carbonell wasn't under a secure contract with LOST. He went to another potentially HUGE show (forget the name, Jimmy Smits was the central character). Thankfully, that show tanked, but had it been successful, Alpert's presence would be very limited. (Much as Abaddon's is now.)
The overall arc of the story has been set in stone (since the beginning if we are to believe D&C and I do), but a lot of the details are nebulous. D&C told us that Charlotte was supposed to be older (than Rebecca Mader at the very least). Yet, it was known in the industry that Kristen Bell (Veronica Mars) was offered the part (but turned it down for Heroes - what was she THINKING?). Kristen Bell is younger than Rebecca Mader, by a year, but plays five years younger at least.
Basically, what I'm saying is... I don't know! LOL
: ) P
Gotch Rita...I see your point.
Thanks PJ! None of us knows! Hahaha! Mostly all I have are unanswered questions. (What else is new?)
As far as Grandad Ray is concerned, I think he will definately show up again. I think I read somebody mentioning that not only has he probably been to the island, but he might be someone we've already seen, but older. Logistically, this seems like a plausible way for the writers to both tie him into the story quickly and blow our minds at the same time.
Hey there Kate TG. I need an honest answer from you.
Why do you think TBI is intimidating right now? I am trying to see if I really am overbearing.
Hammer, you're only overbearing to people who can't handle that you can back up your opinions with FACTS! LOL. (and dish out as good as you get)
And honestly, just as our detractors last week were just a couple or three people,(or maybe one) I think you are only overbearing to a small number of people.
Of course, my opinion will be called biased just because we're "friends" I am sure!
Thanks PJ, you've always supported me you silly sheep follower (did you remember to bow?, I can't SEE if you did or not). LOL
I was hoping since Kate was honest about being intimidated on TBI that she would also say why.
Hammer: It has nothing to do with you! I don't want to get sucked into some troll vortex with all the negative posts that are happening. Thats the reason why I'm here and not over there. From what I've seen, you have always been supportive of people voicing their theories and engaging in debate. I don't understand why there are some people who are getting overly defensive about your posts. You post a lot and have a lot of well-thought out theories/opinions, but that does not make you overbearing. Don't let them get you down. :)
Cool, just wanted to hear it from a lurker.
I guess it's your turn to bow. JK, LOL.
Just remember, now that you don't hate on me...you have a target on your back. LOL.
Uh oh! :D
KateTheGreat said...
...
I personally find Richard to be the most fascinating character on LOST right now.
I'm glad Nestor Carbonell is available. Alpert is a much better character than the one in "Cane," an allegedly intelligent man who thought with his...groin. *g*
BTW, did Richard seem take a deep breath just as he pushed open the door of the Temple (along the lines of "Here goes nothin'!")?--
8) Jim
BTW, did Richard seem take a deep breath just as he pushed open the door of the Temple (along the lines of "Here goes nothin'!")?--
Or, holding his breath before he goes in to the black smoke?
: ) P
The thing that caught my eye about Alpert pushing the door was it seemed like a light was shining on his face. Dramatic effect or just the sun shining?
PJSander said...
...
(Much as Abaddon's is now.)
I had hoped to see a lot more of Abaddon this season. I guess [Actor] (duh) couldn't/wouldn't keep up with the travel. Now that "Fringe" is moving to Vancouver, there may be hope. Bringing him back might put a strain on the believability threshold. We still don't know what favor Locke owes him.
And (belatedly) welcome, KateTheGreat!
8) Jim
Jim: It did seem like an overly dramatic pause. I'm wondering if there is some significance that we won't know about until later. Or if the editors are just ending the show dramatically. I can't wait to see what goes on in there!
Hammer said...
The thing that caught my eye about Alpert pushing the door was it seemed like a light was shining on his face. Dramatic effect or just the sun shining?
More than effect, I think. When I first saw it, I thought the color of his shirt changed.
PJSander said...
...
Or, holding his breath before he goes in to the black smoke?
Maybe. They gotta tell us about Smokey and the can't save everything for the last season; we'd go into overload and they would never have a chance to ask new questions!
Who's buying Lost: the Novel when it comes out?
8) Jim
Who's buying Lost: the Novel when it comes out?
I am holding out on the full SERIES DVD set hoping that something like that will be included!
: ) P
I'm buying it. It may take me forever to read it (for those of you who haven't heard me say it before, I fall asleep while reading books (small print) after several pages...yep literally fall asleep without knowing it coming) but I will take on the challenge.
JIG: [Actor] (duh)
Lance Reddick.
Welcome KTG and thanks for the points on Alpert. He is very mysterious but I have a feeling we will be learning much more about him and Jacob before season's end. I do not think they are the same.
As for TBI, you should not be intimidated to share your ideas on there. If I am offended by a poster, not once but twice, I will not read her/his posts again. There are too many good posters there to let a few spoil it. So join us there also.:)
Point taken, DocH. I am still gonna assume that the hostiles LET Dharma build the fence, for now.:)
I am not familiar with Doctor Who or the Time Lords, flgrl.
I am not sure what to make of Grandpa Ray. It seems like there may be more to him, especially if the family bloodline is tied to the island, but that is another subject I am unsure of. Do we know, for fact, that CS was ever on the island before the crash of 815?
Rita:Jim, I'm hoping that Dead is Dead will address this very thing
Me 2. But who knows? I thought I would learn WHH, but I may be more LOST on that subject now. Unfortunately I saw the rest of the episode titles.
Hammer:Oh wait, duke said that is not a policy...can't be then.
LOL. Dude keeps calling you kid? You should have asked him if he has a brother named Bruce. Then you could have called him Duke Almighty.:)
“ KateTheGreat said... TBI” is a little intimidating right now,...
I agree that the tone seems to have changed somewhat on TBI. Maybe it's because a couple of posters have openly stated that their goal is to smash other bloggers theories (see comment 573 for example), rather than learn and help everyone think through their theories. I guess it FEELS a bit unsafe to post an idea, wondering if this is the one that will get jumped on.
One poster told Tasha that he liked her because she could "take it" - that's great but why should we have to take it? Don't you all get enough of "it" out there, that you don't feel the need to have more of "it" on your diversions too? Sigh....
I agree L4E that ignoring some behaviors/posters is probably all we can do, and hopefully it will be enough, but if WE feel wary of posting, I doubt any newbies would even dare. Judging by the number of posts HERE, it seems some of you may feel the same (have we thanked you recently PJ for putting up this blog?? :) Any other thoughts?
L4E said:
LOL. Dude keeps calling you kid?
+++++++++++++++
I thought that was funny and resisted asking him if he was a 20-somthing or even younger. Kid...LOL.
Rita, I was thinking that if I replyed to his posts as though he wasn't annoying it would help.
At one time I totally ignored him and even skipped his posts, I am leaning towards totally ignoring him again.
I don't see how i "took it." I pretty much kissed his you know what just to make it stop. I love this show so much that i don't want to get kicked off these blogs or everyone to hate me. Plus I was wrong...you know the whole "enhanced version" thing so I had to admit it. Doesn't excuse all the cursing. Oh wait. I put STFU which i wouldn't have done since I was so mad and am really sorry about that guys.
I agree L4E that ignoring some behaviors/posters is probably all we can do, and hopefully it will be enough, but if WE feel wary of posting, I doubt any newbies would even dare.
I have seen that "actively ignoring" people DOES help. That's all I will say at the moment! *bg*
: ) P
Hammer, have you LOST your taste for posting? Not much on TBI OR HERE from you! Even if you decide to back off from TBI (not that I think you should) please post HERE all you like! I really miss your insights into things. Makes me think.
Tasha you are forgiven...I understand how you fell into it as my temptations are hard to hold back. The culture in the areas I grew up primed me for lashing out when attacked whether physcially or verbally. Having kids is what has calmed me down...plus my late mother wouldn't approve. :)
Rita, I'll admit that I'm trying to be a little less imposing. But mostly, I've just ramped up with softball(both coaching my kid's team and helping with the HS) in addition to the event planning/rental biz starting to get going.
I'll try to do better! :)
I understand Hammer - no worries - but I just didn't want you to think that you have to hold back HERE, with US. Time with the kids, you have your priorities just right! :)
Are any of you guys hung up on the moving gun shot wound?
I think it's nothing...I mean what in heck in mythos of LOST could it mean?
Speaking of weird stuff on TBI, Bobola and Frank each only posted once each this week.
I wonder if someone forgot that they are several people. LOL
IMO, just another production error. I have come to live with them as I think it is just sloppiness. That's why I do not feel the need to intervene in the convo and add more posts on TBI. I'm not sure how it could possibly mean anything.
I'm watching Private Ryan with Faraday and Kate's husband, AKA, Castle.
I too am avoiding it on TBI, just wondering if I am missing something in the mythos.
I am not hung up on the traveling chest wound. I think that it is a continuity thing that in any other show would never have been noticed.
: ) P
What really ruined this episode for me is that young Ben didn't hop right up from the gunshot, rip-off his bulletproof Under-Roo t-shirt, and utter something on the order of "I am glad that Castaneda book always taught me to 'have a plan'."
I can always count on you, DocH, to give me a chuckle - and tonight I needed it! Thanks,
: ) P
Well, there are constants on TLI, LOL.
I figured on the responses I got on chest wound, not the exact words, but what I was expecting. ;)
The chest wound thing only bothered me because I watched the end of He's Our You a bunch of times to see if the wound was in a fatal location. Even so, I'm over it. There's much more important/interesting things to obsess over!
The traveling gunshot wound didn't really bother me. Depending on the trajectory of the bullet, Juliet may have been operating EXACTLY where she should have been, WITHOUT the wound moving at all. Not a problem for me.
DocH, only YOU could have come up with bullet-proof under-roos! Love it. :)
PJ, we've never had to open a third page here for any thread have we? It looks like we are about to! Cool :)
Oh, never mind, that would be after ANOTHER hundred posts, right? It's early! Not thinking too clearly yet... :) We got a nasty snow storm last night. Yikes!
We did too, kids got a snow day in April!
No snow here but we have a freeze warning tonight which is odd this time of year in the Big D!
Okay, I am very curious, so I would like to do an informal survey on the Ellie/Eloise Hawking as Daniel's mother issue.
So please, let me know where you stand on this - I am curious!
a) is Ellie from 1954 Eloise Hawking?
b) is Eloise Hawking really Daniel's mother?
c) is Ellie related to Charles by blood (sibling?) or marriage?
You can just write
a) yes/no
b) yes/no
c) sibling/spouse/neither
or you can give explanations if you so choose.
: ) P
For me a,b, and c are all yes but I am not sure how they are related.
Glad to see my neighbors to the north get snow and amazingly we didn't, go State.:)
Is the big D Dallas? I always thought it was Detroit, but that's just my eastern U.S. upbringing.
Yes, yes, other.
I think ex-spouses or something like that. I am leaning towards Penny and Dan being half-siblings.
I think Dallas calls it The Big D because everything in Texas is bigger. Detroit is just The D. LOL.
Well yeah, when I said "spouse" I kind of meant, former spouses or at least co-habitators at some point - perhaps long enough to produce to be named offspring.
: ) P
Where do you stand PJ?
A) YES
B) YES but not sure if it's biological. (In other words, only mom he knows.)
C) Yes
I don't know about any other Big D's, but I was talking about DFW. Dallas/Fort Worth. I guess because there is this country song about divorce and it goes...I'm going through the Big D and don't mean Dallas....It's always been kinda stuck in my head LOL. (Sorry rambling off topic again.)
A)Yes
B)Yes
C)Siblings, possibly twins.
Circus Dork just went out to swim in a friends pool. No snow here.
a) absolutely
b) probably
c) i'm going with siblings
I've been reading up on Lostpedia and I found this.
According to Ben, Jacob makes lists of "good" and "bad" people,
I'm going with Jacob is Santa Clause.
I believe that Ellie from 1954 is Eloise Hawking.
I do not believe that Mrs. Hawking is Daniel's mother.
I believe that Widmore and Hawking are related, probably siblings though not necessarily by blood (raised together), but definitely not conjugally.
: ) P
Now wait a minute PJ. Since when do you as one of the Hammer sheep have your own opinion on something...oh wait...ALWAYS. LOL.
LOL. That's always been my opinion, well since I formulated one *bg*. For a few minutes I thought that Charles and Ellie were married (or a version thereof) but once someone (L4E, CM, Hammer?) pointed out the way young Charles spoke with young Ellie, I decided they weren't married.
From the beginning (the first time we saw the back of Mrs. Hawking at the chalk board), I have thought the Hawking as Daniel's mother was being PUSHED on us. Maybe it is a matter of too often being required to second guess the motives of the plot, but it seems contrived to me.
So there you have it, Hammer. I was with you on the runway, but can't go there on the Hawking/Widmore/Faraday debate! LOL
: ) P
Circus Mom said
I am going with Jacob is Santa Clause.
The temple is really a secret toy shop and they use Play Therapy on Ben to save him?
The Others are really just elves in disguise and Smokey is the Winter Warlock protecting Santa's workshop from detection.
LOL
: ) P
I think someone hijacked Duke's computer. Being nice today...refreshing.
You're so bad, Hammer! LOL.
Honestly, I think Duke contributes a lot to TBI. I think that he sometimes misreads a post as being combative and then reacts accordingly.
: ) P
Yes duke gets VERY defensive, but has some valid points when he isn't so obtuse.
Hammer I'm not sure I understand your last post on TBI, referring to Juliet.
Yes, L4E, I thought that might be confusing....I meant to point out that someone had mentioned that maybe ALL the Others get the 'lose your innocence' treatment. My post is kind of debunking that. I only used her because she is the only Other that we is still around that we have lots of info about that isn't RA or Ben.
DO ya'll think Dharma celebrated Easter and Smokey hid the eggs? If they did, what age do you think is proper to tell the Dharma kids there is no such thing as Smokey?
PJSander said...
You're so bad, Hammer! LOL.
Honestly, I think Duke contributes a lot to TBI. I think that he sometimes misreads a post as being combative and then reacts accordingly.
: ) P
April 6, 2009 4:40 PM
++++++++++++
He certainly does...he just has an ego problem. He wants people to agree with him and thinks people blindly agree with me. In fact, I think he and I likely agree more often than not.
Tasha said...
DO ya'll think Dharma celebrated Easter and Smokey hid the eggs? If they did, what age do you think is proper to tell the Dharma kids there is no such thing as Smokey?
April 6, 2009 5:09 PM
+++++++++++++
During the 3rd trimester. Sorry...could't resist...that was bad.
Yay...Tarzan poked his head out!!!
TY Hammer...just curious. We really don't know yet what Alpert was referring to when he said "What I mean is that He'll forget this ever happened and that his innocence will be gone." He pauses then says "He will always be one of us." ( Had to transcript it myself, LP is slow on that this week. )
There seems to be 3 important statements he made: remembering, innocence, and one of us. I am confused on all 3.:)
What will Lil Ben forget happened? going into the temple, Sayid shooting him, his life before, etc.
Innocence being gone? Is that because he is going to be an other, his life was saved, he went into the temple, he is going to be a spy until the purge, etc.
ALWAYS one of us? Once you're in, it sounds like you're in, there is no leaving, at least from Alpert's perspective.
So I think I am agreeing with you that what Richard says about Ben only relates to Ben, except for the last bit.
PJSander said...
Okay, I am very curious, so I would like to do an informal survey on the Ellie/Eloise Hawking as Daniel's mother issue.
So please, let me know where you stand on this - I am curious!
a) is Ellie from 1954 Eloise Hawking?
b) is Eloise Hawking really Daniel's mother?
c) is Ellie related to Charles by blood (sibling?) or marriage?
You can just write
a) yes/no
b) yes/no
c) sibling/spouse/neither
or you can give explanations if you so choose.
a) Yes
b) Yes, Daniel told Desmond to go find his (Daniel's) mother; We didn't hear a name but Desmond must have. I think she would have denied the relationship if she were not Daniel's mother. Daniel's american accent is an issue, but not a deal breaker.
c) Spouse, I just can't make myself believe it's neither; they don't look enough alike as young people to be sibs, although I know that's a fuzzy area. Spouse doesn't necessarily have to mean that Widmore is Daniel's father, but I think we've reached a point where they can't introduce too many more characters, especially if they want us to have time to get comfortable with new-comers.
BTW, LP has the week after next listed as a clip show. Yawn...
8) Jim
lost4ever said...
...
What will Lil Ben forget happened?
...
I had another one of those moments. Ben will remember most of his childhood, but forget the period between there shooting and when her gets out of the Temple. More specifically, he will remember birthdays and he will remember his birthday present but he will never be able to remember who gave it too him.
8) Jim
I'm going on record to say that:
Ellie is Eloise Hawking. Ellie/Eloise is Daniel's mother. El/Widmore are most likely siblings. I like the twins idea.
It took 2 (3?) episodes to figure out that El/Eloise was Dan's mom. That seems really fast for us (Dan says "tell my mother...her name is..." and we are all WHO IS HIS MOTHER??!!) Too obvious for us, but for the casual viewer, it was just right, and something THEY even could figure out. I have a couple of casual viewer college kids who were really excited when they figured this out on their own. (It was "MOM does anybody think that Mrs. Hawking might be Dan's mother???! and I said "yeah, everybody!")
This is why I think El is mom. I think D&C were trying to throw a bone to the people who are casual viewers and are getting more and more LOST - give them something THEY could figure out and therefore stick around thinking they may be able to figure out more stuff. JMO. :)
I think you are right Rita. Also I think I answered the questions wrong. It was
Yes
Yes
Yes as siblings
Just like Ben and Locke are brothers.
I guess I'm feeling nasty, but are there people over on TBI who have never watched the show?
8| Jim
Tasha: Just like Ben and Locke are brothers.
LOL. Good one.
Okay, the code name for the season final scene has been revealed. Read about it from the link on TBI. I like it. I don't think we'll have to spend nine months on the LP explaining that it really didn't mean...
8) Jim
One more for a while, then it's time for "Heroes."
Over on TBI, Tarzan says that the so far unseen workman named Willie is a spy.
How interesting, Doc! You been keeping bad company? *g*
8) Jim
Ok, I typed this out and hit post and for some reason it didn't work so we'll try again!
a) yes - I think it would be too confusing to have two Ellie/Eloise women who have connections to the island
b) yes - I think that since Des asked Widmore to tell him where to find Daniel Faraday's mother and Widmore gave him Hawking's LA address that they are the same, of course, Widmore could have been lying :)
c) yes, I think - I'm going to go with siblings, they seem pretty close in age
I hope we get to see why they had to leave the island, I still think there's a connection with them leaving and with the Dharma-Losties leaving Dharmaville and returning to present time...
It was nice and sunny down here today, but cool for South TX, only got up to 70 ;)
Morning all,
It snowed last night in north Georgia! Fortunately, the streets are clear and the sun is shining. It's supposed to freeze again tonight, but as long as the streets are dry, that's okay.
8) Jim
Whew...good thing we stopped global warming...LOL.
Looks like softball prac. is canceled, unless someone plows the infield.
Looks like Tarzan has a following.
How could he not have a following?
Funny stuff.
Social Tolerance for Little Islanders
by Tarzan
Tarzan not comfortable big island blog. Not like reference man crush.
Tarzan not swing from that vine. That tree belong to Tom Friendly.
Tarzan vine only swing to Jane tree on small island, Jayne tree on big island, and soon, when Security Chief LaFleur discard yellow hair goddess Juliet - Tarzan vine swing to her tree too.
------------------
Tarzan make retraction first words. Tarzan make man crush one time. Tarzan push large boulder off cliff... crush man! Tarzan crush man because man use phrase - 'bro-mance'. Local natives thank Tarzan for that act mercy.
------------------
Tarzan club bug-eye man in head with oar and paddle back to big island now.
ROFL
Tarzan, you are welcome here always.
: ) P
Tarzan rocks!
8) Jim
Who thinks Cherry-missAWESOME = Leah?
Tarzan makes my day!! Jane/Jayne/Jaine/Jaene/Jeine/J...ne too :)
Prob. Rita, but I am fairly certain that Jayne is leah and slugdoc is duke.
I think Jayne is someone else. I think her posts are hilarious.
I didn't mean to sound like I was jumping on her, just pointing out she spelled Jane wrong, IF she was trying to be Tarzan's Jane. That's all. The more humor on TBI, the better.
I am wondering who is Yoda? Calling out Tarzan like that?
I think Yoda is Duke lol.
PJ: I'm totally in agreement with you for using the Polar bears to turn the FDW, so I guess that explains the Tunisian bear. I do think that there is more to it though. Between the wacky bear cages, the shark with a Dharma logo on his tail, and the numbered bunnies, I feel like there are more experiments that we havn't seen. And why Polar bears? There are many types of animals that could be trained to turn a wheel.
I feel like we still havn't seen what in the world Dharma is actually DOING on the island. We have some great theories, but I'm looking forward to the show actually breaking it down.
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