Whatever will be, will be
The future's not ours, to see
Que Sera, Sera
Okay, so "what happened happened" isn't REALLY part of the lyrics to Que Sera, Sera but that is what I think of every time I hear those words. Still, if you think about it, if what happened really *is* what happened, doesn't that mean that whatever will be, really will be? What I mean to say is, I think that until true time travel is discovered, we must accept the past as the truth (within the confines of historical documentation). But is destiny already determined? Will "whatever" truly be whatever?
Confused? Me, too. There comes a time in LOSTlore when we have to accept what we see, and have seen, as truth (as it relates to the LOST world) even if we can't really wrap our brains around it. I have a lot, possibly too much, faith in Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse that there will be, ultimately, a completely satisfying ending. An ending wherein we will have time travel explained in a way that makes perfect sense, not only to us, the über-fans, but also to the casual viewer. Hopefully tonight will be the next piece in the time travel puzzle.
: ) P
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348 comments:
1 – 200 of 348 Newer› Newest»I was so caught up in our April Fools prank on TBI that I totally forgot to come up with something to get my kids! They got me though... changed every clock in the house and hid my shampoo!
No jokes from me to you, but Happy April, everyone!
: ) P
LOL. I told my older son that school got canceled.(Hmm..that word doesn't look right.) Anyway, he didn't fall for it. I told my younger son that Santa came last night and he ran off looking for the Christmas tree. I probably broke his heart:(
Anyway, Happy April Fool's! Watch out for computer virus today! I am already getting strange pop ups!
I think that (if I remember) the first thread during withdrawal season (end of May through mid-January) will be the You Know You're a LOSTaholic When... thread.
Here is my first entry:
You know you're a LOSTaholic when your crummy day suddenly gets much better because you realized that it is WEDNESDAY!
LOL.
: ) P
PJSander said...
...when your crummy day suddenly gets much better...
Can we petition to have Wednesday renamed to "Lostday?" No? Okaaaay.
DocH said...
Hero saga - OR - It all goes back to Wizard of Oz stuff.
Hurley (cowardly lion) if only had some courage.
Jack (tin man) if I only had a heart.
Locke (scarecroe) if I only had a brain.
Kate (Dorothy) you had it within you the whole time.
Ben (Wizard) self-exlp.
Lather, rinse, repeat for all the remaining characters too - in some form or another.
As far as Charlie dying? You can't tell a story like the Wiz without killing a few of the 'flying monkeys'. (sorry PJ)
Doc's comment kinda got lost in the ongoing controversy about the nastiness at that "other" Lost blog.
My most recent exposure to the Oz mythos was "Tin Man" on SciFi (something of a re-imagining), so I can't comment, But I thought Doc's words deserved a second exposure.
8) Jim
woo hoo!! it's wednesday!! woke up with my nose bleeding, i'm assuming that means it will be an interesting day!!
lins
If WHH is true, which it appears to be, I am always going to struggle with the "loop" and it's understanding. It doesn't matter how many times the people familiar with TT, like wingman and flyboy, explain it. I will never understand how the FIRST time around happened, JMO.
I have no idea what the ep will be about, but I am hoping (assuming?) that it will include an explanation of what happened to Daniel. I hope to see some hostiles too, and I hope to see what's up with Christian and the "undead", as well as with Sun and Frank. What the heck, throw in some smoke monster too. OK, maybe we can't get ALL of that tonight, but I can still hope!
White Rabbit!
I have all thirteen books in the OZ series (Circus Dork) and plan on reading them during the break. There's more to it than the Disney story.
DocH said...
So I download it yesterday and install it. [bangs head on keyboard] Stupid - Stupid - Stupid [cuts wrists, jumps off bridge, runs through traffic.
_______
You are so funny. I use Firefox and although everyone else has problems, mine has been good for the last couple of years. I update it and have certain add ons that are critical. Anyway, not sure why so many have problems with it.
So that I am not totally off the subject here. I read up on reincarnation earlier and found some interesting things out now that the Losties seem to have gone back in time. My wheels are turning today. I posted a bit earlier but it didn't show up. It was for L4E but did it get deleted or something? Maybe I messed up.
The computer virus was made by malware companies to sell more malware ( Symantec ).
Thanks for the Update DocH. I hope I can pull it off.:)
I remember years ago that the South Park creators pulled an AFD prank and almost LOST there fan base.
Hey guys....
So.. it's LostDay (im totally on board with the name change). I was literally standing at the copier today and yell "YAY! It's Lost night." It just hit me at about 10am. I think the rest of the Knomo office is ready to have me committed. LOL!
So, I may get pushed under the bus (or thrown off the bridge previously mentioned) but I didn't really care for last weeks episode and hope that tonight makes me yell "what was I thinking... ofcourse their brilliant". Not that I didn't LIKE it, it's Lost so of course I did, but I just felt like it was a 'needed' episode if that makes sense at all.
I would love to see ole Smokey tonight. I'm still sticking by my idea from this summer of two Smokies.
And... ramdom question of the day:
Whats on everyone's Lost night menu tonight? I DO NOT cook on Wednesdays and am trying to come up with something different. :)
...just re-read my post. SO SORRY for all the typos. I'm at work and trying to multi-task 15 times over!!!
Please just read past my typing/spelling 'issues' today. LOL!
I always put something in the crock pot on Wed so I dont have to cook at night. Today is corn beef and cabbage LOL.
Wednesday nights are usually frozen pizza nights here...occasionally we'll head out and pick up some Chick fil A! Anything that doesn't require much preparation or clean up so I'm not in the kitchen at 8pm (Central Time)!
Hey I DO cook on LOSTnight! (It's official on the namechange :) It's kind of a holiday, right? Besides, then everybody is extra happy and doesn't mind the LOSTnight rules (no talking during LOST, etc.) It's Dharma Chicken tonight!
I benefit from the fact that my wife thinks that all of us are certifiable!
I eat whatever comes out of the kitchen.
There's a benefit to part one, BTW. If I have a question about what a character said, I ask the lady of the house. She doesn't care what they said. (I gotta put her to work on the Dharma booth video. (grin))
8) Jim
OMG. I have those rules. Nobody is aloud to talk when Lost is on. If the kids talk for any reason they have to go straght to bed. When I get text messages I always text back for everyone to "Shut up! Don't text me! Lost is on!" You would think people would know by now. I get texts from my sis at every commercial that either say "WTF?" or "I told you Ben was evil!" or "I wish Sawyer would take his shirt off already!" and I yell at her too! Worst thing is the severe weather where I live and I literally PRAY that it doesn't storm on LOSTnight. I would be so mad!!
We have those rules too. It is harder now that dh is a LOST addict too. Used to be that if the kids got out of bed, dh would take care of getting them back again. Now that we are BOTH watching, the kids are in bed and remain so, under penalty of no computer time (the next day) if they get out! LOL.
: ) P
Tasha said: Worst thing is the severe weather where I live and I literally PRAY that it doesn't storm on LOSTnight. I would be so mad!!
Tasha, I totally understand! During TPID, right as Locke was climbing down the well and the time started to shift, all my power went out! I was SO pissed! I had to wait until it came out on ABC the next day! And, I couldn't even read the ending on the blogs b/c no power!
Well, we decided on Wolfgang Puck's Express Bistro. Black & Bleu salad for me, Baked Mac & Cheese for the munchkin.
Well, Nolan and I have a trade off on Lost-Night. I'll sit and watch Hannah Montana and Suite Life with him until 8, then we switch over to Lost.
Im insanely lucky that my child is the way he is. He's completely down with the "no talking" rule.
Ben will have an 'old man' moment and text or call during Lost and Nolan will yell "MOM!! COME ON!!!"
He gets MAAAAAD if Lost is interrupted. LOL!
I heard somewhere that we were supposed to have severe weather tonight but I think that its later tonight around 12. (I could be totally wrong)
Kate and Roger - what do you think?! :)
Dinner? I had two scoops of infield drills with a side of flyballs drills....add a dash of scrimmage and wash it all down with some base running...mmmmm!
Rita, that would be just like I've seen a million times in the real world, some hottie on the arm of some not so hottie.
(Just in case Ms. Hammer is lurking)....just like me!!
Okay, what I really had for dinner after practice.
Two turkey sticks, 1 personal sized bag of Doritos, two hand full of chow mein noodles and a can of diet Coke....mmmmmm.
Kate and Roger.... Uhm, I think that I just threw up in my mouth a little bit. LOL!
"Huh, Hadn't thought of that..."
LOL!! LOVE IT!!!
Wow.
I thought for sure we were going to see 1977 Widmore and Ellie.
Lots to process.
: ) P
TBI is down already! What's up with that?!
: ) P
I cried when Kate told Claire's mom she was his grandma and then said goodby to Aaron. I cried my eyes out:(
Well we got a LOT of answers tonight... info on the TT (though still some stuff missing - and NO Daniel!). We know where Aaron is. We know what Sawyer whispered to Kate. How great is it that Kate and Cassidy are friends?! We know Jack turned into a prick. (Whoops did I just type that and am I still going to hit send?)
Carole Littleton's "Australian" accent is improving, that makes me happy.
Very satisfying.
: ) P
It was Ellie. TY PJ, I posted on TBI asking the first person they mentioned. Does that mean they were both leaders?
Tasha, your such a chick. LOL Seriously though, THAT was the most dramatic kiss in LOST so far.
PJ, looks like we will see Widmore and Ellie soon enough.
Me, too, Tasha.
So... the island secret isn't all that secret any more. We know that Hurley told his parents. Carole Littleton and Cassidy know. Anyone else?
: ) P
Wow, it's so creepy - what did Richard mean by "he will lose his innocence - he won't be the same - he will always be one of us"?
Why did no one ever acknowledge that Kate knew Cassidy from before the island? That was so weird to me!
Oh, and I loved the dialogue between Miles and Hurley! When Hurley said he was confused and Miles said yeah, get used to it, I was cracking up!
But what exactly does Alpert mean, Lost his innocence? And that now Ben will always be "one of them"?
I love this show!
Yep, I think so L4E...banished leaders....
I love that Hurley is still our Greek Chorus! Asking the questions the watchers are asking.
Not sure the ending "fit" for me - still processing that. I get WHY, I just wanted more, I guess.
: ) P
Sorry Rita, typing at the same time! Great minds and all that :)
It was great to see Cassidy and her perspective on Sawyer. I completely agree with her.
Maybe his "losing his innocence" means Ben will be reborn. Maybe "I was born on this island" was true in a different way. Reincarnation? Did Richard et al have to kill him to save him?
: ) P
We also know now why Kate came back! Still think it was for Sawyer, but maybe she will really look for Claire.
Ben doesn't remember either.
I think losing his innocence is 'knowing the meaning of life' in a way. He now know the 'rules' of fate and destiny. He now knows he has to do certain things and when they will happen and just have to take it.
And he always does just take it...until Keamy killed Alex...then he tried to break the rules.
We know that Ben was still with Dharma at the time of the purge. He went out in the Dharma van, in a Dharma jumpsuit that said workman. It will be interesting to see how this all falls out.
Not sure if they should have used the word innocence. I mean...maybe it's just me but my interpretation doesn't fit. Then locke! "Welcome to the land of the living." Bum bum bum bummmmm(scary music.) The end. Wow another week of agony!
Definitely the fastest hour of the week! We wait all week for this, then BOOM it's all over.
Well, bedtime for me. 5:00a.m. comes mightly early. See you all in the morning!
love it, Hammer!
You're right, Rita. The LOST hour (42 minutes) goes way too quickly.
One hundred and sixty-six hours and 42 minutes left until the next episode! LOL
: ) P
See ya Rita...hey that rhyms. lol
I think my 'innocence theory' will be my BTFB post tonight. :)
It is late and my brain is still spinning over LOST. What is BTFB?
: ) P
Bed Time For Bonzo. :)
Night night, Bonzo!
I think it is funny - it is basically just TLI'ers on TBI right now! LOL
: ) P
Bed Time for Bonzo! LOL
Yeah it should be! I like that idea Hammer. Makes sense to me.
Not goin' to bed yet!!! Waiting for more ideas.
You crack me up, Hammer!
They've definitely thrown a monkey wrench into things with Ben going to the Others. Do you think he returns to DHARMAville and acts as an agent? What are Kate and Sawyer going to tell Roger?
: ) P
I thought it was cool how this situation mirrored when Jack saved Ben before
At one point, I can't remember exactly when, but Sawyer reminded me of Tom, during the Ben/tumor incident.
I also loved how Jack told Kate he saved Ben for her and now Sawyer is saving Ben for Juliet!
He does return to Dharma because WHH.
I also loved how Jack told Kate he saved Ben for her and now Sawyer is saving Ben for Juliet!
Good catch, kF! I am really digging the new Sawyer, and not liking the new Jack. Really liking the new Juliet and still liking Kate. I've always liked Kate. Not sure why others don't.
: ) P
Awesome Katesfriend. Skater's are broken-hearted tonight.:)
Hammer
Comment 101, posted 0 minutes ago - Quote and reply
Tasha wrote:
Hammer wrote:
Okay, so Ben doesn’t remember the past. Which means my theory that Whisperers tell him what’s going on is how he always has a plan in still alive for now.
__________
I am not getting this at all. What exactly will he NOT remember? When he comes back around, won’t he still see Sawyer and them again? So he would still know who they are. Hmmm. I am confused. Someone please explain.
+++++++++++++++++
Well, he won’t remember being shot. The LOSTies will likely leave the 70’s before Ben ‘comes back’ to Dharmaville, therefore not remembering them because he will not have met them…again…after his ‘change’. IMO
I wonder where DocH is tonight? I hope he doesn't have Cabin Fever! LOL
: ) P
Well, he won’t remember being shot. The LOSTies will likely leave the 70’s before Ben ‘comes back’ to Dharmaville, therefore not remembering them because he will not have met them…again…after his ‘change’. IMO
Ooh, this makes a lot of sense. I feel like they're not getting out of the 70's any time soon, so I think Ben might be back before they do... but they wouldn't necessarily memorable people to him now that he's been through his 'change' - except Juliet...
Who now feels a responsibility to him... like in the Little Prince (novel, not episode) and so she nutures him and he has a crush on her... and THAT is why he recruits her in 2001!
A-ha! (Maybe?)
: ) P
Well, he won’t remember being shot
I agree with that part of it. Kind of like Men in Black or the Hatian on HEROES. They take his memory, maybe just that incident or everything that preceded that incident.
Yeah, L4E. That's what I was trying to say - you just said it better! LOL.
: ) P
but they wouldn't necessarily memorable people to him now that he's been through his 'change' - except Juliet...
I was thinking that he does remember them after this incident because of his list in Season 2 and why Sayid wasn't on it. Now if I could just figure out why Jin wasn't on his list.
I typed it at the same time as you PJ.:) Just slow in the submit. TBI is slowing my comp down.
I was thinking that he does remember them after this incident because of his list in Season 2 and why Sayid wasn't on it. Now if I could just figure out why Jin wasn't on his list.
Good point. I hope that doesn't bode badly for Jin! Maybe somehow he finds his way to Sun. (It is a stretch, but I don't want him to die!)
: ) P
I looked up the word innocence on wiki and there are some interesting things. Freemasonry is one. If you look up ACACIA there is even some egyptian mythology thrown in there. Just thought it may throw out some more ideas.
Thx Hammer for answering that for me. I guess we will see what happens. I took it more as, he wouldn't remember what was about to happen to him. I was trying to figure out if he won't remember Sayid killing him. Albert wasn't very clear on that:(
From what I remember and I may be wrong cause I don't take notes. Kate and Jack are not on he list either.
I meant sayid shooting him...not killing him.
There were several lists. On BEN's list (which Michael had) were Kate, Saywer, Jack and Hurley. Bea Klugh had a list and I think there was a "Jacob's list" too.
: ) P
JimInGeoriga said (on TBI, it's not working!): Duty Assignments(?):"
High Priest(?): Richard Alpert
Leaders: Charles Widmore and Eloise "Ellie" Hawking
"I don't answer to them." - Richard
8) Jim
Maybe this is something like Alpert is the spiritual leader of the Others' gov't and Charles/Ellie, then Ben, maybe now Locke are the "secular" heads of gov't, the president/prime minister/insert similar title here. Then they share power, balance each other's power, and control separate domains of Other-life.
Glad you don't have Cabin Fever, DocH! Did you download the CCHD to your PC with DVR? Or do you have some special gizmo I haven't heard of to do that?
: ) P
Yeah Tasha, just my thoughts as it was happening. Richard saying that he won't be the same anymore is what made me think that it wouldn't just be him not remembering being shot, but that he was going to be a different person. Sometimes when you innocence is taken it's because you know about something you weren't really ready for (like what sex is when you are 10).
PJSander said...
Do you think [Ben} returns to DHARMAville and acts as an agent? What are Kate and Sawyer going to tell Roger?
Agent: Absolutely. The best agent is one who can go anywhere and who is essentially invisible. Janitor?
Roger: Two answers. The first is "nothing;" Roger is hacked off at his son, has forgotten all his meanderings about being a good father and is getting smashed. The second is "the truth;" Roger lives with the idea that the person inside the body that looks like his son's is different.
Kate and Roger: Ych!
Night all!
8) Jim
Oh. I am talking about Jacob's list. Sorry. I have alot on my mind. I am now trying to keep up with TWO blogs, researching, and rewatching different parts of the show AND watching American idol which I missed cause of lost. Please forgive me:(
Maybe this is something like Alpert is the spiritual leader of the Others' gov't and Charles/Ellie, then Ben, maybe now Locke are the "secular" heads of gov't, the president/prime minister/insert similar title here. Then they share power, balance each other's power, and control separate domains of Other-life.
I like it, kF. But perhaps is Ben was responsible for Widmore's exile, he was more on the Alpert side at first?
IDK.
: ) P
PJ, maybe what ever spiritual entity that Alpert represents also chooses the "secular" leader, perhaps to adjust to the changing threats to the island?
Maybe E&C were the "appropriate" kind of leaders during the last 30 +/- years but then the island needed Ben to handle the Dharma sitaution.
Now, the island needed Locke for the losties/TT/yet to be revealed situation.
Just some thoughts, not sure what it all means though! :)
Sorry if I am the one breaking it to you, DocH, but I am fairly sure I read that LoM has been canceled.
: ) P
I like the way you're thinking, kF. I am really glad you and Tasha found the little island!
Now where are our other "newbies" SES, LizS and flgrl? Are they west coasters? Or perhaps they were just here to be a fly on the wall for a week? Come out, come out wherever you are?!
LOL
: ) P
Thanks, PJ! I'm glad I found you all too!
It's def time for bed for me now, but I'll be back tomorrow! It has been wonderful sharing my addiction with all of you ;)
Speaking of Charles. Maybe it is just me, but this is the first time that I have realized that Charles was on the island during Dharma. I don't remember that being revealed yet and has been a topic in the air when I talk to people. I was under the impression that the Whidmore corporation was funding Dharma. I still don't understand the food drops that were continuing. ANyway, just wondering if this is a first that it was revealed that Charles is on the island, if that comment really proves anything.
Thx PJ. I can't be a hole on the wall. I feel like I am irritating up here cause I always have something to say. I have often kept quiet when I really wanted to say things because it's hard for me to put what I am thinking in writing. I could if i could write an essay, but trying to keep things short is my problem. Here I am rambling again. See what I mean?
FLY not HOLE. I wish I could edit what I write sometimes. I just get overly excited on LOSTnight!
LOL. Yeah, sorry 'bout that, DocH. I thought I read SEASON finale.
Whoops. Der it is!
: ) P
Life On Mars just had 1 of the top-5 all time finale closers EVER. I mean - up there with Newhart, MASH, Sopranos, Seinfeld.
Wait....what? No Shield, perhaps the BEST hour and a half of TV ever. I was the biggest Seinfeld and Sopranos fan until the finales. I thought thay were lame. JMO.:)
No worries, Tasha! We all wish we could edit sometimes. Fingers don't always move as quickly as thoughts and spell check isn't grammar check, or idea check. We're all human.
(Except Hammer, he is a god.)
LOL
: ) P
Theory check please...
Danielle didn't seem to remember Jin. Possible that she ended up in the Temple mind eraser? It still bugs me that she was able to live on the island so long without having trouble with the Others. She always seemed to know when to avoid trouble (enlightened?) until the rule breakers (Team Keamy) killed her and Alex.
ANyway, just wondering if this is a first that it was revealed that Charles is on the island,
Well he was on the island in 1954 but you are right, this was the first mention of him there during Dharma.
Danielle didn't seem to remember Jin. Possible that she ended up in the Temple mind eraser? It still bugs me that she was able to live on the island so long without having trouble with the Others. She always seemed to know when to avoid trouble (enlightened?) until the rule breakers (Team Keamy) killed her and Alex.
Temple mind eraser? Possibly. I think it is more likely she was just a little bit cuckoo.
As far as her avoiding trouble with the Others... she told Sayid she had never ENCOUNTERED the Others. Which means neither Ben's Others nor Alpert's Others. *THAT* is the weird part to me.
: ) P
Hammer: It still bugs me that she was able to live on the island so long without having trouble with the Others.
Me too, and what about not running into Dharma? Maybe since someone stole her baby they thought she could live there without causing her trouble.
PJ, maybe we will see how it is that Ben gets Alex. Maybe she ends up in the Temple and she gets a deal that allows her to live, but in 'exile'. Maybe for killing her group...give up the kid and we'll let you live...and stay the hell away from us.
I like it, Hammer!
: ) P
I like it too.
"(Except Hammer, he is a god.)"
Of course you like it PJ, you have to because of the above...LOL.
I can't get on TBI so Hammer, this is for you. No way did Ben have time to set up that blond chick in the grocery store. He was too busy going off on Sun and Jack in the van and bringing them to meet Ellie. I think it was just FATE!!!
Your prob. right Tasha, but my idead is more fun. LOL.
Wait, Jack and Sun had already been taken to the Lamp Post. Kate took Aaron to Littleton after she took off from the docks. She gave Aaron away, went to jump in the sack with Jack then they met at the airport...no?
Ill get right back to ya. Im gonna skim thru the episodes lol.
Not sure about the timing.
It seemed to me that Kate stopped at the grocery store on the way 'home' from the docks. This should have been the same time that Sun, Jack, Desmond and Ben arrived at the church and first went in to see Mrs. Hawking.
But she goes to see Cassidy during the DAYTIME, so it had to be the next day and then later she checks into the same motel as Carole and drops Aaron off.
Btw, it does NOT sit well with me that she left Aaron sleeping alone in the motel room, even if it was two doors down. After nearly losing him at the grocery store, she wouldn't have wanted to let him out of her sight - especially if she knew she was "giving him away" shortly. I realize it was probably a kid-actor-time-limit thing, but that kind of thing really BUGS me!
: ) P
Yeah, I'm really stretching it by giving Ben that much credit. It just seemed to me that everyone got on the plane because Ben did something to get them to. So I was trying to find a way for it to happen.
Kimmel's LOST secrets coming up.
I'm waiting for them L4E, so I can go to bed. LOL
Me 2
Ok. Just went back in tonight's episode. She pretty much goes straight to the grocery store. It's daytime when she gets to...Sawyer's ex's house. Can't remember her name. Brings Aaron to his grandma that night. Then goes and sleeps with Jack.
That would be the same time. It was at least 30 mins before Ben has his hissy fit in the van.
I hear ya Doc. But for now I feel they are 'safe' assumptions.
Love where you are going with the Ben/Locke thing. Very ponderous.
I haven't been able to get on TBI in awhile. Worse than usual tonight. West coast viewers should be jumping on by now too.
Tasha said...
Ok. Just went back in tonight's episode. She pretty much goes straight to the grocery store. It's daytime when she gets to...Sawyer's ex's house. Can't remember her name. Brings Aaron to his grandma that night. Then goes and sleeps with Jack.
That would be the same time. It was at least 30 mins before Ben has his hissy fit in the van.
++++++++++++++
Didn't the hissy fit happen BEFORE she left the dock? They were all on the dock together.
I think I am losing the Ben planned it battle, but not because she was at the grocery store before the hissy fit. :)
Oh never mind Tasha, I think I follow you now.
Ben had the hissy fit in the van AFTER they'd been driving for quite a while. Sun said something about Ben saying it was only thirty minutes and it had been longer. That's how I remember it - haven't checked a transcript though.
: ) P
Kimmel's Secrets Of LOST:
By Michael Emerson
The trees can talk... but they don't. LOL
I was remembering it wrong and figured it out while you where posting PJ.
god status removed LOL.
I watched it hoping I saw Jack in the back seat trying to call Kate or something which might have confirmed the time, but no such luck!!
You already proved your case there counselor Tasha. I have withdrawn my arguement :)
No it's not you! I just want to know myself!! I want proof! I mean it was the same night. Ben went and was praying in the church while Hawking's and Jack were having their meeting. He could have made a phone call or two. Have some type of tracking device on Kate's car or have her followed. Most likely not but you never know with him!
DocH:
Is Aaron with granny? I never saw it. I saw Kate leave the motel room. I never saw Gram Littleton take the reins.
Alpert said he didn't answer to Widmore or Ellie - they could be half-way around the planet and not associated with Dharma or anything we have seen so far. All he said was that he did not answer to them - no context.
Two good points DocH, and you may be right, but until I see proof otherwise, for me, Aaron is with GL.
I think Richard was making a point when he said I don't answer to them. "You follow them, I don't".
We saw in earlier seasons when Ben was the leader of the "others" and the people around him, Juliet, Pickett, Tom, Ethan, etc. did what he said because they viewed him as the leader. Ben is not Richard's leader at that time either but he is the leader of the "others".
Richard is planning to overthrow Ben with Locke as evidence in the convo they had in "The Man From Tallahasee".
So I am going to go ahead and assume that they are the leaders of the others in 1977, for now. You are right that they may not be on the island though.
Tasha said...
No it's not you! I just want to know myself!! I want proof! I mean it was the same night. Ben went and was praying in the church while Hawking's and Jack were having their meeting. He could have made a phone call or two. Have some type of tracking device on Kate's car or have her followed. Most likely not but you never know with him!
April 2, 2009 12:42 AM
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
Gotcha. Yeah, like I mentioned earlier, I WANTED Ben to have set it up because I THOUGHT his actions got everyone on the plane.
I think Richard was making a point when he said I don't answer to them. "You follow them, I don't".
We saw in earlier seasons when Ben was the leader of the "others" and the people around him, Juliet, Pickett, Tom, Ethan, etc. did what he said because they viewed him as the leader. Ben is not Richard's leader at that time either but he is the leader of the "others".
Richard is planning to overthrow Ben with Locke as evidence in the convo they had in "The Man From Tallahasee".
So I am going to go ahead and assume that they are the leaders of the others in 1977, for now. You are right that they may not be on the island though.
This may tie in with kF's idea that there are two different KINDS of leaders. Kind of like Ben's the president and Alpert's the CEO. Both consider themselves in charge (though Ben concede's that Jacob is higher up). Alpert ALLOWS Ben to feel like he is running the show, when behind the scenes Alpert is really pulling the strings to make things work the way he wants.
: ) P
When Locke visits Albert in 1954, does he say anything about Ben?
DocH:
You don't walk around the checkstands to return a child
I actually did this once and I took him straight to customer service which was located next to the checkout counter.
Tasha:
When Locke visits Albert in 1954, does he say anything about Ben?
I can't recall
the exact convo but I think he said Jacob sent me, I'm your leader, but I am fairly certain he doesn't mention Ben.
Tasha said...
When Locke visits Albert in 1954, does he say anything about Ben?
April 2, 2009 12:54 AM
+++++++++++
No...according to the Jughead transcripts on lostpedia.
Point being - the Claire look-a-like was headed toward the door with the lad.
I am of the mindset that it was simply to make the audience ~gasp~ (which I did) to see the CLaL heading AWAY with Aaron. We wouldn't be TALKING about it if the woman didn't look like anyone!
Just as I think Kate visiting Cassidy was meant to throw us off the scent of Kate leaving Aaron with GramCarole. I was relieved thinking Aaron was with Cassidy, until I realized he WASN'T! (Or was he? But I agree that until proven otherwise, I have to believe that Aaron is safe.)
: ) P
And on that note, it is bedtime for me too!
: ) P
Me 3...see ya on the morrow.
Gnite. Me too. Glad the severe weather is about to hit now and didn't earlier!
"...And Found" is on Sci-fi right now. Nite all.
K before I go again. Many are upset about the position of the bullet that hit Ben. After looking at both pics, it is off. How could they make that error? Any thoughts??
DocH,
Um, I remember him. Why?
You convinced me DocH.:) I watched it again too. I'm on board for the 5 second explanation when they address that issue. Just like the lawyer.
adapa1 on TBI...how do I do it Hammer?
Sniffs bait....swims away. OR why even bother? I just won't acknowledge his/her posts anymore.
I never should have responded to the post in the first place, my mistake. Please don't acknowledge his response, it only gives it merit.
Cat made a noise, woke me up, had to check to make sure Smokey hadn't broken in to the house and as long as I was RIGHT next to the computer... had to check in here one more time.
adapa1 is confusing... obviously CAN'T be Leah, as she's overseas and won't see the episode until the weekend. "He" was polite and nice earlier, now not so much. Wonder what is up with that?
Might be someone writing simply to bait us hoping to catch us saying nasty things over here. Too bad we're above that! *bg*
: ) P
I agree, don't even address it.
It also sounds like there are some nefarious posters out there still since it would appear that adapa1 was not the one who said he was also Leah. It irritates me when people hide behind pseudonyms to attack others.
Anyway, on to LOST topics... I have been thinking more about WHH and our NOT seeing Daniel. I don't LIKE that. I realize that the story-telling technique being used is meant to fill in parts of the plot erratically, but I don't LIKE not knowing what happened to Rose, Bernard, Daniel, Aaron, and to an extent, Sun and Frank.
I know I can't CHANGE it, so I shouldn't complain... and I know that those salient points will be addressed in time. But we're running OUT of time for this season.
WAAAH!
: ) P
It's kinda crappy for someone to use his name though and stir up more trouble. I mean it's that easy for someone to use my name and just throw out a bunch of crap toward someone. Hmmm. I don't like it at all. What if someone does that to me?
Tasha said.....
In my opinion, everyone on this blog is...(deleted. Too obscene for the unintelligent.)
Oh yeah and although she is overseas, if it were me, I would be watching it online today! I don't think it's the same post but anyone can put all that together just from the buzz of Wed. night after the show. Just the counselor pointing that out LOL.
I don't know about currently, Tasha, but there was a time when overseas folks couldn't get LOST streaming online - don't know how that works, but they would say that they couldn't watch online. I am sure Sky1 and the other European tv networks don't want their customers to watch for free what they're paying big money to show on tv!
: ) P
Why was the lawyer after Aaron and Kate?
He was working for Ben to make Kate think that Aaron was in jeopardy.
I know you know the answer to that, DocH, so I am trying to figure out what you're getting at.
Are you saying that Ben set up the CLaL to snatch Aaron in the grocery store? Wouldn't that mean that the woman had to have been following Kate at LEAST since the dock (and I would imagine beforehand).
I agree that the CLaL walking straight to the door thing was fishy, I just have a hard time believing that Ben had time to set it up.
: ) P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM5QlBTgo9A
Tasha, was there something in particular about the YouTube that we should look at? It seemed to be the first part of WHH, so I didn't watch more than the first minute or so.
: ) P
It's not important. You can just delete that one if you want.
No need, Tasha. I just wanted to know if there was something special in the clip, that's all. Sometimes people will add emphasis to something (like the stuff over Sun's shoulder in Namaste) but I didn't want to watch the whole clip if it was just the show as it usually is. Make sense?
: ) P
It was more about people being able to watch it. Youtube is world wide. Like I said...NOT IMPORTANT. I am just irritated right now. When did that other blog get to...GRRRRR...NVM.
Oh NOW I understand, Tasha! You were showing us that if someone really wanted to watch LOST prior to whenever it aired in their country, they could find it on YouTube. Didn't make the connection. Blonde moment.
: ) P
I didn't want to sound like a smart (beep.) So NVM. I don't want any reason to argue with anyone right now LOL.
BTW, a new video podcast is up on abc.com. Not much to it, but amusing at least. No audio podcast, which I prefer, but I suppose it still may be posted.
: ) P
Where's Sayid? I don't mean that he had to show up in Ep 511, but where did he go?
Jin said "the hostile" was moving north. If Sayid hopes to get away from DHARMA. he needs to cross the sonic barrier provided by the fence. Previously, we've seen people walk through the fence line and collapse in agony.
If Sayid were to run toward the fence, would his forward momentum carry him through, with or without pain?.
If Sayid approaches the fence and calls for help, can an Other patrol walk through the fence line, pick him up and carry him to safety? Richard did tell Horace that the fence did not keep the Others out.
Through it all, if the answer to Q2 is "yes," why did an alarm not annunciate at the security office?
And, BTW, if the fence doesn't keep the Others out, is its true purpose to keep the DHARMAites in?
8) Jim
Great Episode!
I think the guy in Dharmaville with the beard is the same guy who was outside the courthouse yelling at Kates trial. The camera focused on him so I think we were supposed to notice him. Makes me wonder even more who the guy on TLI beach is. They focused on him to.
I loved the conversations between Miles and Hurley. Should we invite them to our LI? Miles could explain it all to us.
Hey. What is up with the enhanced episodes? Are they always slightly different because I have never noticed before and never saw anyone post about that...
I think Jin said Sayid was headed north because Jin was north of downtown Dharmaville when they encountered each other.
When the camera paned over the Dharma folk during/after the fire it stoped breifly on a guy with a beard. I first thought it was Mr Smily but when I re-watched I decided it looks like the guy outside the courthouse.
Adapta1 said "I couldn't care less" not "I could care less" Didn't someone in a earlier post have issue with how that is said. Perhaps that is who adapta is.
I am not so certain that Jin truthfully reported North. There may be some allegiance there - giving Sayid a head-start before Sheriff Goodspeed and his posse catch-up to current events. When I say allegiance - I fully realize that Sayid just clobbered Jin... who knows? Jin may have wanted to pop a cap into young Ben the entire three years he was waiting for Sun.
To me, Jin looked PISSED. By then, he knew Sun was on the plane, but they hadn't found her yet (he has no way of knowing she's thirty years away). He's been looking for her on his own, I imagine, and now with Sayid, the "hostile" missing, he won't be able to look for her. Not sure if he said the right direction, but I imagine he was trying to!
: ) P
Hey. What is up with the enhanced episodes? Are they always slightly different because I have never noticed before and never saw anyone post about that...
I have never compared them side by side of course, but Toeknee's right about having to shave a couple of minutes off to fit it in the true HOUR of programming. Don't like that it happens, but I guess it makes sense.
: ) P
DocH said...
...
I think the sonic fence (aka SoNaR barrier) has turned into a joke.
Yea, verily! We all get to pretend we think there's a real barrier there!
8) Jim
TBI is down for me today, I caught up as much as I could last night though...I'm wondering, since Ben will apparently not remember anything from his past, aka, the Losties that are currently living in Dharmaville, when he returns to Dharmaville - because he has to return, we saw him there as a workman and he kills his father in the purge - perhaps the Losties leaving and Widmore/Ellie leaving happen for the same reason, at the same time? Perhaps when/if Widmore and Ellie turn the wheel and leave, the Losties are transported to current time, 2007/2008? Maybe that's how they end up with Sun and Frank and Locke and all that?
When the camera paned over the Dharma folk during/after the fire it stoped breifly on a guy with a beard. I first thought it was Mr Smily but when I re-watched I decided it looks like the guy outside the courthouse.
You may be right, CM. Honestly, though, I suspect it is more about them using the same regulars as extras than that guy being important to the plot. People were being overly zealous about looking for easter eggs back then and picked him out of the crowd outside the courthouse.
JMO
: ) P
Perhaps when/if Widmore and Ellie turn the wheel and leave, the Losties are transported to current time, 2007/2008? Maybe that's how they end up with Sun and Frank and Locke and all that?
That is plausible and a twist no one has yet thought of (which makes it much more likely!). LOL
: ) P
Howdy all! I'm in Colorado so I'm a bit off. I just scanned through all of these comments as fast as I could with my son harassing me to play computer games over my shoulder, so here are my thoughts for the week.
Loved it when Miles was confused by the TT explanation. Absolutely a great conversation that we all needed.
I feel gross even saying this, but to me "losing your innocence" sounds sexual in nature. I can't imagine that's what it is, but that's certainly what I thought of (which may actually tell more about me).
Maybe all of this changes Roger. He actually did seem deeply upset and Kate might put him on the right road (barf).
I agree that it was completely disturbing that Kate just left Aaron in the room sleeping. Maybe a mother thing though.
Richard seems like a complete renegade now, not giving a crap about Charles and Ellie. It did sound like Ellie might actually be the more powerful one over Charles though. Can't remember the exact wording, but she sounded scarier.
Seriously, where the heck is Daniel. They've really got to deal with that with a quickness or maybe it's not until "the incident".
Locke was creeping me out at the end. Would not want to be Ben.
Ok, back to my vacation now Lostfans!
I feel gross even saying this, but to me "losing your innocence" sounds sexual in nature. I can't imagine that's what it is, but that's certainly what I thought of (which may actually tell more about me).
ROFLOL. It does sound like it could be that, I agree. But in the context of the 70s it is probably more about learning more than one should about ANYTHING.
Enjoy your vacation, flgrl!
: ) P
but Toeknee's right about having to shave a couple of minutes off to fit it in the true HOUR of programming. Don't like that it happens, but I guess it makes sense.
I don't think they shave off any of the episode, I am pretty sure they just reduce the commercial breaks.
All I know is in one episode certain things are said that aren't in the other. Makes me wonder if they decided to cut a part out and accidently aired it or they just shaved it out of the enhanced like some have said. Either way I am trying to figure out why they would take something of importance out rather than just an extra scene that isn't that important. I would think it would have been the commercials as well.
They can't cut commercials. It is the commercials that pay for the show to be aired.
A regular hour of tv usually has 42 minutes of programming and 18 minutes of commercials. A LOST episode, that often runs to 10:02, is 44 minutes of programming with the same 18 minutes of commercials.
Enhanced episodes can't run past the one hour mark, or they mess up the show that follows. It would make the new episode of LOST start at 9:02 and end at 10:04, which messes up the 10pm hour.
Probably they usually skim most of that time off the "previously on LOST" but maybe they couldn't shave enough for that episode?
HTH,
: ) P
Would it be impolite of me to suggest that WordPress sucks?
8( Jim
LOL JiG. Not sure why there are so many issues this week. AFP gone bad perhaps? LOL
: ) P
who FTR has NOTHING to do with it! LOL
RGS (on TBI) said:
Isn't it a bit of a leap to assume that Richard appears out of nowhere, or that he is somehow anticipating that he is needed? Sawyer and Kate were surrounded by perhaps a dozen Others, couldn't one of them have run ahead and let Richard know what was up?
I state that because although Richard is mysterious, there are things that he doesn't seem to understand or have yet to be revealed to him, I even have doubts that he is a TT. In fact I'm almost positive he isn't otherwise it is an extremely sloppy depiction of his character, because if he is able to TT, surely he would have done so to get a handle on all the strangeness that surrounds the Losties. From Locke disappearing in front of his eyes, to Sawyer's knowledge of the H-bomb and now the delivering of a child shot by Dharma folks (as far as he would be concerned).
Any take on that would be appreciated.
Richard has "situational awareness." We apply the term to fighter pilots because they have to know what's going on around them at all time in the air to stay alive. In Richard's case, he is aware of everything that is happening on his Island. He gets to where he is needed because his aspect is the Monster -- conventional wisdom not withstanding -- It will be interesting to watch Richard travel with young Ben in his arms between the point where he disappears from view and arrives at the vicinity of the Temple.
8) Jim
They can't cut commercials. It is the commercials that pay for the show to be aired.
Sure they can. Certain time slots and shows command more money for their airtime, for example, the Superbowl. I wouldn't think a repeat of LOST would have the same commercial value as a new episode.
OOPS. I meant NOT HAVE the same value
You have a point, L4E. A re-run would not command the same money as a first run. But for that, they charge less per commercial rather than show fewer commercials.
: ) P
Well the enhanced episodes are not made by ABC but rather s marketing company called Met/Hoddler. In the March 18, 2009 podcast, the producers clarified that the Enhanced episodes are non-canon and that they don't have time to regulate them. Doesn't really answer bout commercials but good enough for me to realize I will always watch official episodes.
At the risk of starting something, which is why I'm posting this HERE, :) Tasha you weren't really WRONG about the 30 years thing on TBI - you just lost track of the original question! ORIGINALLY, (if I remember correctly, can't get onto TBI to check) you were wondering about Widmore saying he was the LEADER for 30 years. He did say (roughly) that "we protected the island for 3 decades" - which is not exactly saying he was the LEADER that whole time. Duke said that W claimed to be the leader for 30 years. We don't really know that.
Bigger question: When W first said "we", I thought he meant the Others, as a group. With new info though, maybe he meant himself and Ellie - co-leaders? STILL however, he didn't precisely say he was the leader for ANY amount of specific time.
Very interesting that Benman was unconscious in 07/08 while Benboy was down for the count. He "revived" at the same time as we presume Benboy did, under Alpert's ministrations.
Same thing happened to Locke (sort of!) when he had leg paralysis at the same place he would later (earlier?) be shot in the leg.
In Benman's case, I think that if benboy had died, Benman would have too. It was just priceless to wake up to DeadLocke (murdered by HIM no less!) leaning over the bed!
Just a quick reminder to everyone (myself included! LOL) that once the blog hits 200 comments, you have to scroll to the next page to see 201+. I am stepping away from the computer for a bit and am not sure if I will make it back before we hit 200 - especially since TBI is still acting up.
FWIW, Tasha, D&C have said in podcasts before that the pop-ups are not canon. I think it was very soon after the pop-ups started last year.
: ) P
Rita, I had alot to say but have spoke my peace and am now keeping my mouth shut because I don't want to ruin it for other readers. I know that Whitmore didn't say that and yes I did lose track of the question Point is to keep my sanity and not ruin it for other reader's I decided to agree and apologize. Saying they protected the island for 3 decades is not the same as saying he was leader for 3 decades. He called me a DA if you read it. I am one to have a tendency to go off on people for something like that. I am a little fiesty and have rage issues and really would rather keep it off the blog LOL. My husband would never get off that easy. (So let's keep that a secret;)
What does FWIW mean? I honestly don't really read the pop ups and have heard they weren't canon but still thought ABC made them. I just never realized the episodes are edited. I am such a nerd I have all the enhanced episodes recorded. I don't know how much ya'll watch this show, but seriously, I have watched every episode in season 1-4 at least 25 times, not including when I just go back and watch pieces of it. Guess I have no life.
Tasha, I agree it's best to not bring it up again on TBI, but just wanted to side with you privately! Again, you weren't wrong :) L4E made the same point over there too, after I did here, that W didn't say he was the LEADER all that time.
FWIW = for what it's worth.
I cant' record episodes but I buy them as soon as they come out and THEN I watch them over and over and over (and over.... :)
Rita:
When W first said "we", I thought he meant the Others, as a group. With new info though, maybe he meant himself and Ellie - co-leaders? STILL however, he didn't precisely say he was the leader for ANY amount of specific time.
Completely agree Rita. I also think "we" might be the hostiles or the group that Ben is now going to be a part of. Like Richard said, he will always be one of us.
Sonic fence. FWIW Doc and Jim, I think the only thing to hold on to at this point is that Smokey can't penetrate the fence.
Good points DocH and Hammer, about the sonic fence. I am also wondering why the hostiles would even let Dharma build it? Why would they let Dharma keep smokey out?
Maybe it was part of the "truce" between them?
: ) P
Maybe there are two different smokey's and they don't want them running into eachother. LOLOLOL. Ok, that's not that funny but I think it is. One is "good" smokey and the other is "evil." One was already on the island and the other one Dharma is in the process of making. Why IS Dharma there anyway?
The fence is pretty high tech for the times. It would not have been easy to build either. I wonder how they kept Smokey away while they were in the process of building it.
Maybe John Hammond traveled back in time and built the first "Jurassic Park" on the island and put the sonic fences in to keep the velociraptors away!
LOL.
: ) P
What if Alpert et al, those we've come to think of as natives, are really not so good?
What if Alpert was the one who orchestrated the purge, and had Ben carry it out as his initiation, just as Locke had to kill his father to prove himself?
Haven't got much past that, but wanted to put it out there.
: ) P
I thought that WAS his initiation pretty much BECAUSE of him wanting Locke to kill his dad. I thought Ben had to kill his dad to prove he was worthy. That's what I have always thought but I might be wrong. (Because in the enhanced version, he never kills his dad! No J/k) I wonder if Locke is gonna have to kill a big group of people. All the survivors or something. Doubt it.
I am sure nobody hee plays WOW. Or maybe someone does. LOL. Anyway i just found out there is a secret hatch that leads underground with numbers on it. That is so funny! I am now determined to find it!
PJ said:What if Alpert was the one who orchestrated the purge, and had Ben carry it out as his initiation, just as Locke had to kill his father to prove himself?
The difference here is that Locke was an Other wanna be, and Ben - after his Alpert treatment - IS an Other already, sort of by "birth". Doesn't mean you are wrong, but it would seem that Ben wouldn't necessary HAVE to prove himself.
Having trouble typing today - I just got back from having surgery on my left hand. Makes typing a little harder (between the bandage and the numbness) but LOST and TLI is worth the effort!
PJSander said...
...
What if Alpert was the one who orchestrated the purge, and had Ben carry it out as his initiation, just as Locke had to kill his father to prove himself?
One of the outstanding question from the Purge aftermath is Alpert asking Ben if Ben wants someone to go get Roger's body, to which Ben says something along the line of "No, let him stay there."
Alpert was a
* superior offering a courtesy to a subordinate
* subordinate asking for guidance.
I lean toward the first; I think Ben was not yet the leader of the Others on the day of the Purge and that his statement to Hugo that he had given an order the cost forty(?) people their lives referred to an incident (small "i") other than the Purge, perhaps the confrontation between Others loyal to Widmore and Others loyal to Ben.
How're they gonna fit all this in?
8) Jim
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